Space shuttle test reveals 'smoking gun' in disaster

Washington Post via Austin American Statesman ^ | 7-8-03 | Kathy Sawyer

[thepainster]

Space shuttle test reveals 'smoking gun' in disaster Simulation of Columbia launch mishap puts hole in wing section

By Kathy Sawyer

THE WASHINGTON POST

Tuesday, July 8, 2003

SAN ANTONIO -- With a resounding "thwack," a piece of foam traveling at 500 mph blew a ragged hole the size of a stop sign in a section of a space shuttle wing Monday, effectively shattering any remaining doubts about what destroyed Columbia and its crew Feb. 1.

"We have found the smoking gun," said Scott Hubbard, a member of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board who supervised the test.

Austin American Statesman Link

[camle]

well, i'd be all in favor of private industry taking over.

[Prof Engineer]

space ping

[kjam22]

Why would we want to colonize Mars? Imagine the costs of mining Mars and transporting the goods back here. It's the thing that dreams and imagination is made of. There is no reality in it.

[camle]

i disagree with that. there may not be any obvious short term profit centers (no gold rush), but there cannot NOT be any long term positives.

[kjam22]

no business person would see Mars as a competitive field for coal, or iron, or whatever. The R&D is not affordable in any fashion. No way.

[thepainster]

There is really no immediate benefit to going to Mars except to explore. It is Man's desitiny to explore and eventually colonized space. We might as well get started now. I would like to see us get to Mars before I die. I may be a little selfish in my desire, but that is my option as I get old......

[camle]

why not mining? What other minerals are there that we don't know of? And let's not forget the tourist angle.

the only reasons that we can't see profit inother worlds is that we were trained not to.

[jpl]

You know... I don't really see the purpose in going to Mars. I don't see the benefit. That's why business isn't able to do it. There is no marketable benefit or profit. It satisfies the imagination of some, and that is the extent of the benefit.

The Italians said pretty much the same thing when that nutball Christopher Columbus proposed his western passage to India.

[RichardW]

You are so right.

[blackdog]

My odds of getting killed while holding an anti-clinton sign at a Hillary love fest are about one in five. I think I'd take the shuttle any day.

That is unless they sell advertizing on the exterior and someone buys an anti-clinton slogan for space launch. I'll walk thank you.....

[kjam22]

But there were and are some huge differences between Columbus and going to Mars. And it isn't even a fair comparrison.

But if Mars makes sense... then I hope businesses go after it. Maybe I'll start my own space travel company with colonazation and mining of Mars as our buisness objective. You want to buy some stock in it?

Our country has a lot of things that we can and should do with tax revenue. (after we lower everybody's taxes)

[blackdog]

The technical offerings to society in the form of products are by far greater than the investments in any space program.

Like it or not, space travel is what advances our culture in both technology and thinking.

Just why do you think the Chinese are tackling space right now? They need to advance their society.

[kjam22]

It is Man's desitiny to explore and eventually colonized space

I don't believe that. I don't believe that there is anything of value that can't be acquired cheaper here on Earth.

We would be colonizing space for the sake of dreamers and the imagination. You're talking about a paying for a pretty expensive dream when we have issues here on Earth. I'm all for "business" going to Mars. But we both know that won't happen because there is no financial benefit or gain there.

[kjam22]

I see an advantage to a space station. I see an advantage to satellites, weapons in space, defenseive shields... etc etc. But there is no reason to put a man on Mars, except to pound our cheast and say "we did it". And that's a pretty expensive cheast pounding.

[kjam22]

I see an advantage to a space station. I see an advantage to satellites, weapons in space, defenseive shields... etc etc. But there is no reason to put a man on Mars, except to pound our cheast and say "we did it". And that's a pretty expensive cheast pounding.

[thepainster]

No doubt it would be some very expensive chest pounding. But my point is that the current space shuttle program and international space station are examples of how not to do a space program. 400 million to launch the shuttle and put an ant farm on the space station makes no sense to me. If it was up to me I would kill NASA and turn over the rocket program to the military. The rest of our space needs can be done better in the private sector. But it looks like NASA is here to stay. So why not do something that will capture the imagination of the nation and world again?

[dark_lord]

Why would we want to colonize Mars? Imagine the costs of mining Mars and transporting the goods back here. It's the thing that dreams and imagination is made of. There is no reality in it.

Is that sarcasm? Gee, why would anyone want to colonize the "New World". Imagine the costs....yeah, it was expensive in the beginning. And some of the early colonies were either wiped out or suffered tremendous loss of life. But that's not necessarily the point. Many early colonists were what we might today call "cults", both religious and political.

Believe me, if we could get the costs down to around 500,000 per head for a one way trip that would be self sustaining, there would be plenty of volunteers and they would self fund. Of course, only a tiny percentage of the population would be willing to make a one way trip with a strong possibility of death at the far end, but even .001% of 280 million is too large a number to ship if we spent the next 20 years building ships and launching them.

[SquirrelKing]

Smoking gun or Smoking Man?

[kjam22]

I'm all for all of the adventurers in the world pooling their money and heading for Mars.

When Columbus and other explorers were exploring, profit was a factor. There was the potential for immediate financial gain. It didn't require Trillions of dollars spent over several years in R & D.

Comparing exploration of the Americas to exploration of Mars is like comparing apples and oranges.

[The Duke]

Why would we want to colonize Mars?

Why would a person aspire to climb to the top of Everest?

BECAUSE IT'S THERE!

Some of us are not content to simply "eat-n-crap" day in and day out from the day we're born until the day we die. We yearn to see great things done.

Fortunately for pragmatics such as yourself, however, we are few in number and becoming fewer.

I can still vividly remember the morning after I had seen Neil Armstrong first set foot on the moon in 1969. I was a sharecropper's kid, and my parents had allowed me to stay up quite late to witness that historic event. I recall when I woke up that morning it felt almost like Christmas - I awoke into a new reality in which man now travelled among the stars.

Then, turning on the television that morning to bask in the glory of the previous night's grand accomplishment I was greeted - on all stations - by news reporters asking a single question. "Why spend money to go to the moon when there are hungry people in our country?"

I wish I could describe to you how, on that morning, a young boy's enthisiasm for the future was shattered by a handful of socialist, nay-saying scum. On that day I saw this nation's greatness descending into oblivion as predictably as a satellite which just didn't quite reach escape velocity.

I'm older now - and since those days have left the cotton patch to walk the halls of Johnson Space Center numerous times myself, and known many of the fine, dedicated people who comprise our space program. And I find myself not so concerned that we Americans will achieve great things, probably because I feel deep inside that the next great power (China?), will step up to the plate to fulfill those youthful dreams.