Jonah Goldberg: Democracy will be severely damaged if Californians recall Gray Davis

Union Leader ^ | 7/08/03 | JONAH GOLDBERG

[happygrl]

Was their a recall of a Superintendent of Public Instruction

As I recall (heh heh heh) it was Bill Hoenig, Superintendent of Public Schools, who got in trouble because of a consultancy set up by him and his wife that had the appearance of graft because State school monies were directed to it. I believe that this was close to the end of his term or he may have resigned, but he was not recalled.

I like the idea of politicians in terror of us, the voters, lol!

[B Knotts]

No, he wasn't the issue, to be sure. However, I think it shows that he is not going to help in any way to solve this problem.

He's OK on a number of other issues, and pretty good on a few. But on immigration, he's out to lunch.

[CatoRenasci]

I like the idea of politicians in terror of us, the voters, lol!

Well, that was the general idea back in 1910. Actually, I think Hiram Johnson said honest politicians had nothing to fear from the recall, only corrupt politicians would be in terror of the wrath of the people.

[monkeyshine]

Ah, buzz off Jonah. How could things get worse and if they do, who cares? Maybe things need to get worse before the voters and the legislature ever make a serious effort to make things batter. Davis should be punished, he should be sacrificed on the altar of public disgust over the cronyism, corruption, high taxes, low oversight, fiscal mismanagement and anti-business environment the democrats have given us over the years.

An example needs to be made out of him. And maybe, just maybe, the democrats in the state house will wise up. Or maybe, the voters will wise up and bounce the dims out in the fall on the wave of disgust at their total ineptitude, diregard and abandonment.

The state cannot survive much longer feeding a core constituency of government employees/democrat voters. It already has among the highest income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, gas taxes, cig taxes, liquor taxes... enough is enough already.

[HamiltonJay]

No, actually the recall effort shows the complete failings of TRUE democracy, and why we are not a democracy but a republic!

Democracy is straight majority rules, it is rule by the mob, and rules mean nothing because they can be changed at the whim of the mob....

Don't get me wrong, Davis is a fool. However the real fools were the idiots of California who re-elected him. Democracy will show its full failings once again if Davis is recalled.

I am not pro Davis, I hate the bum, but to suggest that democracy will be hurt by his recall? Please, this sort of crap is exactly why DEMOCRACY showed itself to be a failure in GREEK times.... California decided that it prefered a failed greek system to the Republican way of governance... now deal with your consequences.

[SierraWasp]

"...I think Hiram Johnson said honest politicians had nothing to fear from the recall..."

Since you are so well versed on Hiram Johnson's reasoning, I would be intensely interested in your reaction to reply #98, above, about the unintended consequences to our joke of a republic in CA as it stands now.

[CA Conservative]

You do understand that in California there are no Republicans in any statewide office and that if a Republican were to win the governorship that both the state house and the state senate are overwhelmingly a Democrat majority. A new Republican governor with angry entrenched Democrats in the legislator will not be able to do anything useful.

Not exactly true. The governor still has the power of the veto, and in CA, we have the line-item veto. We also have enough legislators to uphold the vetoes. So even if we can't get anything passed, a Republican governor can slash spending and veto the more egregious assaults on our liberties.

The CA legislature is so gerrymandered that there is no hope of any significant change from Democrat to Republican control for the next 10 years, at least. Are you saying we should just let the state go down the toilet?

I respect my colleagues here at FR, but I am about at the stage on this issue where I am ready to say, if you don't live here in CA, and do not have to suffer the consequences of having Red Davis in office, just STFU.

[CA Conservative]

By all accounts, Davis is incompetent not corrupt.

Then you are not reading the right accounts. You should read up on the Oracle debacle (state pays millions for software licenses they don't need after Oracle contibutes to Davis); the story about the prison guards union (union contributes to Davis, gets a 30% pay increase that is NOT cut in the current budget); etc. Gray has made "pay for play" into an art form.

[skeeter]

I respect my colleagues here at FR, but I am about at the stage on this issue where I am ready to say, if you don't live here in CA, and do not have to suffer the consequences of having Red Davis in office, just STFU.

I'm inclined to agree.

[CatoRenasci]

I think I disagree completely that the initiative, referendum and recall are bad things, or socialist in nature. It was hardly a socialist Switzerland from which we borrowed them; rather Switzerland is the most bourgeois republic ever to exist.

Direct citizen action has an honorable tradition in California: consider the Vigilante movements in San Francisoco in the 1850s.

The socialist ideas in California have been rolling around for a long time: remember Sinclair Lewis and the Townsend Plan back in the '20s. And the Wobblies were active both in the logging counties in the Northwest and in the Central Valley during the depression. And San Francisco itself has been a strong union town since the days of Boss Ruff around the turn of the 20th century.

Fortunately, from the time of the Progressives, the state was generally run by WASP elite republican/progressives until the late 1950s, when the elite San Francisco Catholic Berkeley graduate Pat Brown became governor. Pat was a decent enough old style liberal democrat, my father knew him well at Lowell High School and at UC Berkeley. After Reagan, the real problems began with Junior Brown.

[skeeter]

I respect my colleagues here at FR, but I am about at the stage on this issue where I am ready to say, if you don't live here in CA, and do not have to suffer the consequences of having Red Davis in office, just STFU.

I'm not sure they understand how offhanded, broad-brushed criticism & smug dismissal of all Californians sounds to long time conservative residents of the state who are struggling against the assorted flakes, many(if not most) of whom have arrived here within the past twenty five years, to build their life & raise a family.

We've suffered plenty living here. And guys exactly like Davis are responsible. Jonah can go p*ss up a rope - a chance to stick it to the liberal establishment comes only so often.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

By all accounts, Davis is incompetent not corrupt.

A "betrayal of trust" does not have to be illegal immoral or fattening. It can be as simple as not doing the job that you are sworn to do.

I find it hard to believe, CA didn't know what they were getting into when he was re-elected in Nov. If two years from now, there was a recall, it might be more appropriate but not 8 months after a duly held election. This is mob rule

I agree that they should have known but that is neither here nor there. Time has little to do with whether or not he is doing his job. According to some Californians he is not and they have enough support to force his firing. Mob rule would be if they dragged him out of the governor’s mansion and hung him from a lamppost. Charges have been made and he has had a chance to respond. His answers apparently haven't been good enough.

Plus in a state dominated by libs, don't you dare think they won't use this tactic the first time AHHHHHNOLD cuts their pet spending programs.

They have tried it in the past and will try it in the future. There is nothing that can be done about that unless the law is repealed. But it seems to take a pretty bad situation before it comes to this. Americans as a general rule don't like to do recalls or impeachments. They prefer to wait and vote them out the next time around.

For this to happen it must be very bad indeed.

[SierraWasp]

What you say is correct! I'm focused on the extreme abuse of the "democratic process" since the success of Prop 13, only! These are good processes gone bad, since then. The ballots are a blizzard of bull chit and are driving people either to the polls in self-defense, or away from the polls wondering why we even have representatives who pass the buck to citizens at every opportunity.

It has heightened the intollerable disenfranchisement of rural citizens to a frightening extent, compounding the taxation without adequate representation since the US Supremes decision in the Earl Warren court of "One Man, One Vote," with the devastating phrase of "Cows don't vote!"

We've had "rural cleansing" ever since!!!

[Carry_Okie]

Mr. Goldberg is incorrect to characterize a recall election as destructive to democracy. The recall is the epitome of democracy. It may not be helpful to orderly republican govenment, but he ought to get his terms straight before bellowing about possible unintended consequences.

[CatoRenasci]

The argument that he can't be fired, when there is a mechanism, is absurd. If a corporation rehires an executive with a 4 year contract, and the shareholders don't like his performance, if enough are unhappy, the directors will fire the clown.

[CyberAnt]

Well ... that's okay Jonah - this isn't a democracy - it's a republic and California will be just fine without Dufus!!

[DB]

I've lived in California 30 some odd years.

I own and operate a business here.

I pay the maximum CA income tax rate.

I pay dearly in property taxes.

Davis deserves to be ridden out on a rail.

The worst is yet to come. The true result of Davis’ spending spree over previous years is now only just beginning to be felt by the voters.

My only point is that would seem more likely that the voters would throw out many more Democrats than just Davis in the next election cycle if he were to stay. In the long run that would be far better for California.