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The Trouble with Treason (David Horowitz regarding Ann Coulter)
Frontpagemagazine.com ^ | 7/8/03 | David Horowitz

Posted on 07/08/2003 2:45:10 AM PDT by DPB101

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To: billbears
Coulter is a gadfly compared to the emerging Michelle Malkin, who actually has a family and, as far as I know, never dated the son of a porno king. In that sense, her lifestyle is generally urban neoconservative, but she has certainly learned the language of us rubes in fly-over country.

That said, watching the establishment distance themselves from Coulter's latest screed is a welcomed sight and should help draw the line a little clearer amongst Mainstream Rightist who have tended, in recent months, to ignore that their new neoconservative friends are not particularly conservative.
221 posted on 07/09/2003 5:31:36 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: NYCVirago
I disagree. The point of the quote is to explain why Joe used whatever theatrics he did, not what Chambers thought of Joe. We are all waiting to have some examples provided by someone of Joe's "theatrics", but so far, we are still waiting.
222 posted on 07/09/2003 6:28:45 AM PDT by TheDon
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To: DPB101
Let's see....Horowitz defends "liberals" as patriotic by pointing to anti-communist Democrats from 30-40-50 years ago.

30-40 years ago I was an anti-communist Democrat.

Because of the hatred, pandering, ever-increasing Anti-Americanism and seismic shift to the left of the Democratic Party, I became a Republican.

Looking at the two Parties today, Ann is spot on and Horowitz, as is usual, blows smoke to obfuscate the political landscape. The Democrats (and if anyone doesn't think they are liberal, look at who their leaders and candidates for President are) are still full of hatred, pandering, anti-American and still moving to the left with even more alacrity.

Unfortunately, they have now established a "Three Class" system in the United States.
The first class is the workers. Two salaries are now equal to what one used to be. One salary now goes for food, clothing, shelter, transportation and the other salary goes to pay taxes, health and child care.
The Second class is the "Gimme" class. A collection of minorities, government employees, union workers, deadbeats, ne'er-do-wells, single welfare mothers that are nothing more than bastard factories, feminists, sexual deviants and other assorted kooks that feel if they shout loud enough they will get eveything they want. And so far, they are correct.
The third Class is the "Ruling elite" whether elected, anointed or just members of the Lucky Sperm Club. They pay lip service to the first class, but mostly the lip service is to disparage them as not knowing what is best for them and their families. So they take the money from that class and give it and preferential treatment to the second class so the ever-increasing numbers of the second class will keep them in power.

Meanwhile, the first class keeps looking for a Deliverer from the burden of supporting the other two classes.

And remebers that Horowitz was on a team of lawyers that took the race card to a despicable new low in making sure that one more murderer can walk among us with impunity

223 posted on 07/09/2003 6:49:54 AM PDT by N. Theknow
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To: Ichneumon
Even if she only "preaches to the converted" -- and I strongly disagree with you on that -- even that alone would "help the conservative cause" by providing us with tons of factual ammunition to use when *we* "preach to the unconverted".

I completely agree with that. I think that the substance of what Ann does is incredibly useful in many cases. But she could accomplish the exact same thing without intentionally antagonizing people who might otherwise listen to her. You don't sway opinions by intentionally pissing off the people you are trying to convince.

As for the liberals out there, I could care less. They're not open to reason anyway. But there are an awful lot of people who may be open to reason if you can present them with your arguments in a reasonable manner. You don't have to be bland and boring to do that. Limbaugh toes that line well. He gets attention by saying things that tick off liberals. But the moderates chuckle, and consider the substance of what he says. That's how he's built such a huge audience, and even some libs admit they listen to him.

But Ann doesn't do that. She says things that piss off moderates, even when she could make the exact same substantive point in a manner that wouldn't piss them off. Regardless of whether you personally feel her methods are effective, the fact is that a lot of conservatives are not happy with her style. And if goes too far for some conservatives, how in the world can we expect her ideas to get through to moderates?

224 posted on 07/09/2003 8:41:06 AM PDT by XJarhead
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To: JohnGalt
Mainstream Rightist who have tended, in recent months, to ignore that their new neoconservative friends are not particularly conservative.

McCain made that clear. Want to bet Kristol, Podhoretz, and Saffire (in that order) are the next to trash Ann Coulter? That is the order in which they jumped on the McCain choo-choo.

225 posted on 07/09/2003 8:43:07 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: Scenic Sounds
Horowitz, if anyone, certainly understands the need for hyperbole and exaggeration.

I'm two thirds of the way through "Treason" and I think I know why Horowitz and that Dorothy babe don't like it. (Hint - I was an East coast red diaper baby with Oberlin/Yale (over) educated parents with such an ultra liberal family still that I escaped when I was 16 and live 3 thousand miles away):

Ann doesn't write like a hoity toity scholar. She writes in a vernacular that a GED auto body worker can read, appreciate and laugh at. Hoity toity types also hate humor.

226 posted on 07/09/2003 5:56:10 PM PDT by First Amendment
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To: Steel Wolf
And Eisenhower did nothing when the Soviet Union crushed the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Reagan skedaddled out of Lebanon after the Marine bombing and did nothing when the Soviets shot down that airliner over Korea. If you want to search for examples of Republicans who didn't react when the commies did something bad, there are a number of examples.

The unfortunate fact is that some conservatives are unwilling to give a Democrat or liberal credit where credit is due. The question is what was Truman's overall record fighting communism not particular errors he might have made. His overall record was outstanding. Yesterdays Dems are not the same as todays as Horowitz, hardly a liberal apologist, has pointed out.

227 posted on 07/09/2003 6:43:27 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: MEG33
The reason why is because nobody challenges Matthews' tactics-- he interrupts, he doesn't allow people to answer, he argues in a really pugnacious, condescending and dishonest way. And someone should say just once, "Chris, if your so damn confident in your beliefs, occassionally let your opponents talk." Matthews is far more outrageous than O'Reilly. The way the Left describes Mccarthy is the way Matthews is. He goes after Neo-Cons like a junkyward dog, has the most lopsided panels and he unfairly targets Dick Cheney. And he hates the (conservative esp.) jews like any good Uber MC from Philly does. This man obssesses over ethnic id in a Hitlerian way, it's not normal!
228 posted on 07/09/2003 8:14:15 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: driftless
Looks like Ann's book is accomplishing an impossibility- - rousing us conservative sleepwalkers to stand up and be heard. It's way past time to rescue our dead from the liberal memory-hole and honor them with proper respect.

No question Tailgunner Joe was ridden out of Washington on trumped-up charges while intimidated Republicans stood by and watched, to their everlasting shame and regret.

And yes, Truman knew all about Alger Hiss and participated in the cover-up. An eye-opening book from the sixties, THE ORDEAL OF OTTO OTEPKA, describes Truman's furious reaction when he read the intelligence reports describing Hiss' spying activities - - - "Why, that sonoffa b**** betrayed his country!" Truman sputtered over and over again.

Failing to be honest about the real threat of internal espionage, combined with firing MacArthur, cost him the '52 election, and perhaps justly so. I was a child at the time and was shocked one day to hear my uncle declare to the whole family that Truman surely must be a Communist. After that I started watching the evening news, and clearly remember the promises made by the Republicans to "clean out the State Department." Still waiting for that one.
229 posted on 07/09/2003 8:31:47 PM PDT by Liberty Wins
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To: driftless
Horowitz detailed Truman's fierce opposition to communism. Is Horowitz wrong?
Coulter says that Truman had as much anticommunist credential before the Republicans took Congress in '46 as Clinton had a welfare reform credential before the Republicans took Congress in 94. That is, essentially 2 years elapsed before Truman did anything to control the subversion menace--and that, he did grudgingly.

The Army undertook the decryption of the Venona files on its own initiative and against Truman's orders. The project--and its findings--had to be kept secret from the POTUS; it revealed things that Truman was patently unwilling to hear.

After Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech in America, Truman had Acheson snub Churchill--and offered Stalin a ride to America on the USS Misouri to respond to Churchill.

Truman was probably better than Roosevelt, but that is hardly any praise at all--the fact that Eastern Europe ended up under Stalin was according to FDR's plan. FDR started trying to get Hitler to fight the US from the moment Hitler invaded the USSR. From FDR's POV WWII was essentially a war to save the Soviet Union.


230 posted on 07/10/2003 6:10:28 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: driftless
Reagan skedaddled out of Lebanon after the Marine bombing
. . . with a little help from the Democratic party in Congress . . . so Ann says; I don't remember that part.

231 posted on 07/10/2003 8:38:17 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: DPB101
Wow. Thanks for this post.
232 posted on 07/11/2003 1:16:36 AM PDT by Carthago delenda est (Carthage must be destroyed. Hillary must be stopped.)
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To: DPB101





233 posted on 07/17/2003 4:20:41 PM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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To: driftless
Eisenhower did nothing when the Soviet Union crushed the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Reagan skedaddled out of Lebanon after the Marine bombing and did nothing when the Soviets shot down that airliner over Korea. If you want to search for examples of Republicans who didn't react when the commies did something bad, there are a number of examples.

Those were all tactical and strategic decisions made in the fight against communism.

Hear the liberal talking point comparing the JFK, the Bay of Pigs and Cuba to Eisenhower's inaction during the Hungarian revolution a lot. There was one huge difference: Soviet tanks were not going to roll through the Fulda gap into Key West Florida. Besides, had Ike acted, traitors in the Democrat party would have bitched and screamed.

No comparison between what you cite as the GOP being soft on communism and having a Soviet spy in your administration, knowing about it, and promoting him--as Truman did. Republicans were not the ones who gutted the CIA and FBI in the 1970s, Republicans were not the ones who squealed like stuck pigs when Reagan decided not to contain but to bust the Soviet Union.

Remember, Democrats passed the Boland Amendment, making it ILLEGAL to fight Soviet expansion in Central America.

What else do you need to know about the Rat party than that?

234 posted on 07/17/2003 4:40:32 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: DPB101
I still maintain that yesterdays Dems are different than todays. You simply can't cite a few examples of Truman's missteps early on in his presidency, and deny his Marshall Plan, support for loyalty oaths and other anti-communst measures, and his response to communist aggression in Korea. The same with Kennedy. To believe that the Dems have always been subversive leftists waiting for the chance to install communism is absurd. There is a Cult of Coulter on Free Republic. And let me state to her loyal fans even Coulter can be wrong, and I'll further state that I too am a fan of hers. But read Horowitz's comments about Coulter's book on his website. And try to keep an open mind about things.
235 posted on 07/18/2003 1:42:41 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: driftless
But read Horowitz's comments about Coulter's book on his website.

Horowitz flat out misleads and mistates what Coulter wrote. The debunking of Horowitz starts here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944360/posts?page=1#1

George Crockett, a Democrat House member from Michigan, refused to sign a resolution condemning the Soviet Union for shooting down Korean Air Flight 007. Crockett began his career as a lawyer for the Communist Party USA.

Ron Dellums, a Democrat who chaired the House Armed Services Committee and sat on the House Select Committee on Intelligence, said in 1993: ""We should totally dismantle every intelligence agency in this country,piece by piece, brick by brick, nail by nail."

Samuel Dickstein (D-NY) served 11 terms in Congress. He was a Soviet agent. It is difficult to believe no other RAT in the 1930s, noticed Dickstein's agenda was very close to that of the Soviet Union. It is also improbably that the agents exposed by VENONA were the only spies in the Democrat party. What we don't know, even today, is most likely worse than what we have discovered about the Truman and Roosevelt administrations.

236 posted on 07/18/2003 3:46:20 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: driftless; DPB101
You are of course correct about the cult of Coulter, and also equally correct that she too can make mistakes. Frankly, I have seen FAR MORE repeated mistakes by Horowitz than Ann has ever made. Disquieting and disturbing mistakes. Frankly, Ann is a considerably more diligent researcher than Horowitz, but she is too tied to Lexis/Nexis. She needs to crack some old books occasionally. And as for overstating the case, it is okay for the Left to ALWAYS be calling conservatives Nazi's and 'McCarthyites', etc. but apparently it is NEVER okay to be over-the-top of a conservative to be over-the top in rhetorical retaliation. Everyone has some flaws.

President Reagan's flaws can be recounted for pages and pages, but still, all and all, he was still the most magnificent and loved president we have had since Teddy Roosevelt...and some would argue since Lincoln!

Coulter is a like-minded fire-brand, who, if she inadvertantly overstates a case, does not diminish the conservative movement in any way, as it would tend to be her own credibility impaired not the philosophy. And she knows she is not perfect in all things. She knows all the above. We know that. And the liberals know that, but have lied since day one. They are the one's attempting the ad hominem attacks based on lies and guilt by association. So all in all, the firebrand in these times of PC insanity is more than welcome. She is essential if we are to make ANY progress at combatting and reversing our losses in the culture wars. The instance where Horowitz slams her for her momentary hesitations and mentally stammering about JFK's place are normal in ON-AIR debate. Not everyone can have the razor-wit ALL THE TIME. Undoubtedly Ann was equivocating to try and predict how the interlocutor would MISUSE her defense of JFK to attack her thesis, and so was not sure whether to buy into the question, or challenge its premise. This one instance of normal, rather than superhuman rhetorical performance is neither disappointing...or totally unexpected.

I pray and hope that she be prosperous and effective in her efforts to restore the republic. She is doing more than any of us.

237 posted on 07/18/2003 4:03:31 PM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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To: Paul Ross
The left claiming there is a "cult of Coulter" is straight out of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:
8.Pick the target. Target an individual, personalize the attack, polarize and demoralize his/her supporters. Go after people, not institutions. Hurting, harassing, and humiliating individuals, especially leaders, causes more rapid organizational change.
The history of conservatism since FDR (probably before) is the history of one person, time and again, being picked out for demonization by the left while what that person said and stood for is mistated or ignored. Weak conservatives become rattled by the attacks, polarized, and do the left's work for them.
238 posted on 07/18/2003 4:17:07 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: DPB101
Call me a cultist then. I didn't really pick up on the negative connotations of being a Coulter-cultist. But you are definitely right that the Left is TRYING to demonize Ann. Just as they did with Phyllis Schafly. And are trying to do with GWB.
239 posted on 07/18/2003 4:21:52 PM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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To: DPB101
Call me a cultist then. I didn't really pick up on the negative connotations of being a Coulter-cultist. But you are definitely right that the Left is TRYING to demonize Ann. Just as they did with Phyllis Schafly. Or Dr. Laura Schlesinger. And are trying to do with GWB.
240 posted on 07/18/2003 4:22:36 PM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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