Mandela at 85

The Observer via the Guardian ^ | Sunday July 6, 2003 | Anthony Sampson

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Last Wednesday, Nelson Mandela once again showed his unique moral influence, two weeks before he celebrates his eighty-fifth birthday with a banquet in Johannesburg. In Westminster Hall, he launched the Mandela-Rhodes Foundation which will bring part of the huge fortune built on diamonds and gold back to black South Africa. He heard tributes from Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, with whom he had talked at length at Number 10 beforehand.

The Prime Minister made an impromptu speech explaining how Mandela 'symbolised the triumph of hope over injustice'. Mandela warmly thanked him but did not conceal their differences about the Middle East: 'We differ on one point - very strongly,' he said.

Afterwards, Blair and Clinton supported the frail old man as he walked slowly down the hall between the audience of a thousand Rhodes Scholars who were clapping Mandela much more than them. It was a poignant image: the two much younger leaders still needed the moral support of the old man.

[Bogolyubski]

I think a more apt description of Tony Blair's "Cool Britannia" might be 'soft totalitarianism,' which is also a good description of nearly all of "Old Europe." If anyone dared to express opinions like those expressed on this forum, they would be hauled before a court and charged with 'hate speech' or 'inciting ethnic tensions.' In Blair's UK, there is a "Diversity Directorate" who regularly carries out armed raids and arrests of people whose only crime is to disagree with the grim, Orwellian policies of the government. With sky-high taxation, unlimited welfare for immigrants, socialized medicine, and laws on the books denying individuals the basic rights like freedom of speech and self-defense in the protection of their own person, familes, or property - most freedom-loving Americans would consider Blair's "Cool Britannia" a socialist hellhole.

Yes, Blair supported the US in the Iraq war and deserves our thanks as far as it goes. He is a leftist to the core, though, and no friend of liberty. He has already sold out his country to the EU for the most part. EU courts now regularly overrule Parliament and the thousand-year tradition of English common law. I can only guess that like his pal Bill Clinton, he's trying to create some sort of 'legacy' by appearing to resist the final takeover of England by the EU. Sadly, the opposition Tories are an even more pathetic collection of sellouts to the leftist agenda than the Republicans are here.

[Scenic Sounds]

now if some of you want to either say Blair is not a socialist or want me to say I support a socialist sure does not make me a rogue freeper but what does it make you here at a conservative site?

shame on you!

Well, gee, TLB, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get you all worked up.

I'll tell you what, I'll stop calling you a rogue freeper if . . . I get to call you TILT.

Do we have a deal? ;-)

[annyokie]

But, you see our focus is NOT on all of Africa, nor should it be.

The basic misunderstanding of most Americans about Third World Countries, is that they are like the US without free elections. No they are not.

The fraud, bribery and extortion are beyond belief for the average American. We have the cushiest berth in the world and for that reason think that we may do as we wish in harsher environments. By that I mean, our young girls and boys may hitchhike and sleep under bridges, flash cash money and be outraged when they are raped/robbed. This happens in Europe as well.

Free elections? Who is going to police them to make sure someone who make 26 dollars a month doesn't vote 20 times because they were paid? Our naivetee is so unreal here.

Bribery and corruption are the rule of law in all third world countries.

That said, we need to begin somewhere, and Liberia is a good place to start. We have an historical connection, after all.

[onyx]

Tony Blair is a socialist. So what? He's Britain's socialist PM.

We have our own hard-line-socialist/commie sympathizers here to over-throw.

Besides, this thread is about the criminal/communist Nelson Mandela, not about Tony Blair unless you want to include Blair's counterpart, Clinton!

[TheSpottedOwl]

Lol, let us embrace our diversity!

[Bogolyubski]

I think the United States has something of a moral obligation to try and work for peace in Liberia. Liberia was founded by freed American slaves who set up their country on the American model. Liberia is, in a sense, a descendant of the USA. Of couse, with all the mentions of African conflicts, I note that the Bush administration has once again allowed the Islamist government of the Sudan to continue its policies of mass murder and enslavement of the Christian population in the souhern and Blue Nile regions. The State Dept. has issued only muted criticism of this horrific campaign of atrocities - more of the "Religion of Peace" doctrine, evidently.

[Archimedes2000]

Some old, addled, communist terrorist who "can't think properly", and the British papers laud him.

What else is new?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Free elections? Who is going to police them to make sure someone who make 26 dollars a month doesn't vote 20 times because they were paid? Our naivetee is so unreal here.

I do not equate Africa with the Western nations. When people shrug their shoulders and ignore the corruption in the Third World, they are giving up hope on the possibilities. This is like saying that freedom isn't for everyone. This is like saying that the Iraqis are better off wallowing in any corruption that they can stitch together, today... instead of working towards democracy.

Liberia had a noble beginning, as did Mandela's recent Presidency in South Africa. Yes, they have fallen into corrupt hands, but why throw the baby out with the bathwater? Why not push for change, today?

Liberia, South Africa, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, are like ticking bombs. And, I sometimes think that if we just give them a little nudge, the balance of power will shift, and then they have a chance. Tackling all of Africa cannot be the goal. But, targeted pressure will work in some situations.

[annyokie]

Liberia was not founded by Freeman, but by their former slavemasters who paid for their passage. I'll look and send you the link after awhile, since I am in the middle of cooking supper for my brood.

Monrovia, the capital, was named for James Monroe, BTW.

[TLBSHOW]

sure add in Clinton too if you want to...

all 3 are socialist. Blair, clinton and Mandela.

[onyx]

WOW! We agree!

[Courier]

Africa for 1000, Alex

Q- Still an A**hole

A- Mandela at 85?

Correct

[armed_in_sydney]

Nelson Mandela,the man responsible for thousands of South African immigrants turning into Australians.I thank him for that anyway.

[Dr. Zoo]

hmmm...good point

Lets give Winnie one two, I have a lighter.

[Bogolyubski]

AtomicPunk just posted the Liberian Constitution on another thread. It was the work of the American Colonization Society, a private charity of foundation, not the US Govt.. I think the ACS was made up of abolitionists and free blacks but I'm not certain on that detail. No matter, the moral obligation remains as Liberia wouldn't exist if the United States had never existed. It was founded by Americans on a uniquely American idea. I do know that for many years it was an island of relative stability in a chaotic region of the world. Sadly, in the last 25-30 years, the country descended into rampant corruption, tribal conflicts, revolutions, etc.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Lets give Winnie one too, I have a lighter.

I have some old tires and gasoline. Whoooohooo, party on! (damn skippy)

[rockfish59]

Saw a show with Peter Ustinov last year and he was in South Africa showing all the slums and squallor.
Then he went to Mandela's house and man, talk about living in the lap of luxury.
What an effin hypocrite.

Can anyone here understand his English yet?

[cyborg]

That's funny because I was going to go to school in SA. Someone said I might as well go to Australia.

[annyokie]

It was the ACS who began the Nation of Liberia. However, our moral obligation does exist and we cannot shrug it off.

[mountaineer]

Thread: Clinton and Oprah to attend Mandela's birthday party this Saturday.