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To: Hajman
In an abstract sense, if I benefit from the fruits of someone else's labor without compensating them, have I stolen from them? If not, what have I done?

If I hire a translater in Japan and use their services to negotiate a contract with a supplier, and then refuse to pay the translator yet benefit from the contract that I could not have negotiated without them, have I stolen from them? The point remains that without the original Toyota, boat, or song, I would not have my copy because I have not replicated all of the work that went into the original. Without the labor of the producer of the original, I would have nothing, just as I would not have a contract with a supplier in Japan without a translator. Yes, I can negotiate contracts and, yes, all of the details in the contract may have been determined by me, but without the effort of that translator, there would be no contract. Without the original Toyota, there would be no copy. Without the original recording, there would be white noise in the MP3 file. In all of these cases, and with the lawn cutting and the locksmith, I have taken nothing tangible from anyone and have deprived no one of the future use of anything, yet I have received benefits from their labor for which I am not compensating them. If this is not theft, then what is it, in the abstract?

338 posted on 07/07/2003 7:47:08 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions
Seems like folks would rather discuss terminology than solutions. There is a long list of offenses that will label an individual as a thief. And in a broad sense that person may be.

I would like to add to my comments above. In my 20 some years of working with IP. I have seen very few situations actually go to court. 99% of the time sending a "cease and desist" form letter to the offender is the end of the matter. And this is when the copyright license holder has "proof" of damages.

Also counterfeiting still goes on in the recording industry. Music retailers can, and do, buy Canadian Import "cut-outs" (wink-wink) easily. Real actual damages here, not so sure with the sharing of MP3's.

Working solutions have been given. Apple is working. MP3.com was working. Many RIAA members refuse to be involved with on-line sales, saying they are working on their own sites.

IMHO This is bull. Streamlining sales through web-site transactions reduces the bloat and as a result fewer "expenses" are incurred. The money trail is easier to trace. Read "HitMen" by Frederic Dannen for insight.
342 posted on 07/07/2003 8:32:02 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: Question_Assumptions
"If this is not theft, then what is it, in the abstract?"

Fraud.

356 posted on 07/27/2003 6:18:13 PM PDT by Paladin2
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