Posted on 07/06/2003 7:52:27 AM PDT by TLBSHOW
Woman Allegedly Throws Her Twin Infant Sons Into Mississippi River; One Child Still Missing
The Associated Press
ST. PAUL, Minn. July 6 — A woman allegedly threw her twin infant sons off a bridge into the Mississippi River, then jumped in herself, screaming incoherently as she fell 75 feet to the water, police said.
Several people who were at the river's edge for the city's July Fourth fireworks display Friday jumped in after them. A man rescued one of the 11-month-old boys, then pulled the mother to safety with the help of others.
By then, the second boy had disappeared, said police Cmdr. Brian Coyle.
Naomi Gaines, 24, and the rescued boy were expected to recover, though Gaines remained hospitalized Sunday and doctors were concerned that she could have internal injuries, Coyle said.
The other child was still missing Sunday and presumed drowned, Coyle said. Divers could not be sent into the river to search because of a swift current.
Coyle said Gaines, who has no criminal record, could face charges as early as Monday. She also has a 7-year-old son and a 4-year-old daughter, neighbors said.
She dropped the twins over the 5-foot railing of a bridge, then climbed over and jumped, witnesses said.
Coyle said the unidentified man who led the rescue of Gaines and her son put himself in harm's way by swimming out into the powerful current.
"It was heroic," Coyle said. "I'm impressed that a citizen would jump into the river and do what he did."
Witnesses said the woman kept screaming and resisted her rescuers.
"We were just sitting there, and we heard her screaming," said Erin Mac, who was among thousands of people at the river's edge. "She just kept screaming these bloodcurdling screams."
No doubt news was censored years ago and certain crimes not reported..
I can remember 40 years ago friends who were Boston police officers telling me the crime of incest would not be reported in the press, no matter how inhuman the act.
. Then then proceeded to tell me of some local horrible incest mutilation stories that never got covered in the newspapers.
Today if the press doesn't tell you, the Internet will. - Tom
The knee-jerk reaction in this age of feminism is to give a woman an "out" for her crimes before the ink is dry on the newspaper story. I'm ready to grant the same mercy to men who kill when they are clinically depressed, schizophrenic or otherwise mentally ill. But you will never see a post like yours that seeks to mitigate punishment for a male murderer so quickly, so automatically, if at all. John Salvi was also screaming incoherently when he ran into several abortion clinics and gunned down a half dozen people. I didn't hear any of you "mentally ill" apologists chiming in to mitigate his sentence due to his own well documented schizophrenia. I think, in an honest moment, you will agree that this type of mercy is publicly poured out only for women killers. There are men doing over 20 years right now for shaking thier babies in the crib and killing them in an un-premeditated rage. I'm sure they too were screaming incoherently during their murderous tirades....to no avail in the Courts that tried them. And there is no public outpouring of mercy for any of them.
If you're going to crusade to save whacked out mothers who kill, then men deserve all the same time, energy, thought and devotion that you give to these murderous mothers.
Finally, just a thought to ponder. Why does a babbling, incoherent mother have to kill her children in that state? Is incoherence synonomous with murder? There are many things that people do when they go over the edge mentally, such as walking around talking to themselves, compulsively picking up litter on the sidewalk, sitting and staring into nothingness, thinking they are Joan of Arc, etc, etc. Even a mentally ill person has to be filled with unbridled rage to kill her own children. Your reasoning says that the sheer magnitude and horror of this crime must somehow mitigate her culpability, because after all, mothers just don't do these things. Well guess what? Mothers are doing these things all the time. Mental illness is not synonomous with unbridled rage and murder; and if it is, then this woman had a chance long ago to drop her hate and rage before it consumed her mind.
Yep, first it's post partum blues, now it's Fox News. Soon it will be something else, but it sure won't be her fault according to you female murderer apologists. The second thing that history records a woman as saying is: "the devil made me do it", (Genesis 3:13). Some things never change, ;o)
Did they also try and commit suicide? I've read your posts on this subject, and it seems to me that you have an axe to grind.
You say this with such certainty, but it's totally untrue. The newspapers reported every murder, suicide and seedy occurance in years past, just like they do today. Go to your local library and pick up an old newspaper, you'll immediately find out you're wrong. As for incest, what girl in her right mind, or editor with any compassion, would want to make public the name of a girl who was raped by a father or uncle? In this regard times have changed, modesty and ethics have gone down the tubes and have been replaced with a sense of revenge. Pity.
Unfortunately, soon there will be some crazed man who kills somebody, perhaps a wife or children. I look forward to your little article in Free Republic in his defense. :o)
Consciously calculated suicide, (such as planning, then driving a vehicle to a deep river, and then jumping in), is an act of desparation my dear, and not exclusively one of mental illness. One has to rationally think and plan to get into a vehicle, drive to a place that can take your life, and then carry it out. It's a great way to kill and then avoid the punishment. Yes, I have an agenda, (or as you say, "ax to grind"), and it is to refute the feminists who present outrageous apologies for women who murder their children, which seems to have become a national sport these days.
Your wrong.
I gave you an example of what was not reported under any circumstances- incest.
Locally, Howie Carr became famous because he spent time around reporters who had great stories about politicians and famous figures that they did not report, and Howie reported them to the embarrassment of mafia, politicians and others who otherwise would have gotten a free pass. He still does to this day.
Remember how Matt Drudge became famous; reporting on a story that was going to get buried.
The press looked the other way on FDRs polio but report today on Bush's religious convictions.
You can't be to old if you think the press didn't bury and cover up stories in the past. - tom
I never said it gave any legal right. As you said, we all have our urges. I had a business partner at one point who triggered an urge to slam an ax blade thru her forehead, when I discovered she was embezzling from me and planning to take control of our venture away from me. I controlled my urges, and may friend with post-partum depression controlled hers.
the infowarrior
I explained to you that the lack of publishing incest stories was not a "coverup", but was a societal norm that recognized moral limits on printing sexual depravity stories, and also was due to a generational mentality that respected the modesty and embarrassment of the victims. Few people wanted to read that real ugly, seedy stuff anyway, and no victims wanted their good names in the press with this dirt. With today's more widely published accounts of incest, you are talking about a steady cultural devaluation in respecting the privacy and pain of others, it's about exploitation, not "coverups". Smut sells newspapers. Today they present themselves on national T.V. on the Oprah Show and tell the world all the seedy details of their incestual rapes. Generations ago women, (and men), had way too much modesty and sense of privacy to go that route.
I'm middle aged and from Boston too, I know of Howie Carr very well. He doesn't always break news, he often tries to create the news by stirring up people's emotions with his vile insensitivity, raw language, and cruelty to his fellow man. He makes a living off of kicking people when they're down, going so far as to take bets on which elderly celebrity is going to die next. None-the-less, the media have always carried stories of gangs, (The Winter Hill Gang), the Mafia, Eliot Ness stories of breaking up illegal booze cartels, the whole nine yards. And the media have always had an agenda --- as newspaper stories, old and new, will reflect their agenda. In the 1800's there was an endless parade of vicious cartoons and editorials slandering Catholics and the Pope. Especially Irish Catholics. The media ignored the widespread oppression and blatant prejudice against Catholics because they were part of it. So it's all about AGENDA.
Anyway, I dabble a bit in anitquarian books and antique newspapers, and I can guarantee you that the newspapers always printed the bloody murders, the rapes, the seedy crimes, the robberies, etc; just not with the same headline mentality, repetitiveness and mind-boggling drumbeat.
Don't they all sound whacked in the head when they murder their own children and then commit suicide? is this normal behavior for any human being? I get replies like this and they only serve to strengthen my position that women have an inborn sense of empathy with each other when they kill people, coupled with an equally natural lack of mercy for a man who loses his mind and kills. Two examples: September 8, 2001. A Sacramento man tried to kill his five children, succeeding in killing three of them, he then immediately committed suicide. Did you make a post in here, or did any woman, asking for prayers for the him and the victims, or offering the "mental illness/ whacked" excuse for him?
Example # 2: April 24, 2003; a young man killed his three children and then immediately killed himself. Again, where were the all the voices of empathy, sympathy, and compassion for his being "whacked"? They did not exist. Female murderers are being excused today by other women via the "abuse excuse", (my husband was a bad man, he hurt me and he deserved to be murdered); or by the "whacked" excuse, (she had post partum blues, her meds were the wrong ones, nobody listened to her, yadda yadda yadda). I'm not buying any of this stuff. Murder is murder, if there's compassion and mercy due to extenuating cirstances, then it's either for everyone, (male and female), or it a phoney feminist charade that seeks to excuse cold blooded killers.
Nope, and you just answered your own question. We, as mothers cannot fathom how anyone can murder their own children. When we read about stories like this, we are genuinely confused and therefore suspect mental illness or a nervous breakdown.
Two examples: September 8, 2001. A Sacramento man tried to kill his five children, succeeding in killing three of them, he then immediately committed suicide. Did you make a post in here, or did any woman, asking for prayers for the him and the victims, or offering the "mental illness/ whacked" excuse for him? Example # 2: April 24, 2003; a young man killed his three children and then immediately killed himself. Again, where were the all the voices of empathy, sympathy, and compassion for his being "whacked"?
First of all, I didn't see either article you mentioned. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually live on freerepublic. Since you are so emotionally involved with this topic, you should investigate the psychological and physiological differences between men and women. I'd venture a guess about your two examples...the mother was planning to leave the man. Am I right? Damn skippy it's whacked! Like I said earlier, we don't have all the facts about why that woman jumped off the bridge.
Female murderers are being excused today by other women via the "abuse excuse", (my husband was a bad man, he hurt me and he deserved to be murdered); or by the "whacked" excuse, (she had post partum blues, her meds were the wrong ones, nobody listened to her, yadda yadda yadda). I'm not buying any of this stuff. Murder is murder, if there's compassion and mercy due to extenuating cirstances, then it's either for everyone, (male and female), or it a phoney feminist charade that seeks to excuse cold blooded killers.
My, my, my....you really do have an axe to grind. For your information, I am not a feminist. I am a mother, and as many times as I'm tempted to cheerfully wring my kids necks, I won't. Don't make fun of postpartum depression. In fact it's called postpartum psychosis when it gets to the point that some woman thinks her baby is posessed by the devil...or whatever is in her head. Postpartum depression is caused by hormonal havoc. We have hormones that help us get pregnant; we have hormones that help us carry that pregnancy to term. We have hormones that kick in when it's time for the baby to be born. Ever stop to think about why we get cranky around "that time of the month"? It's the hormones! When these hormones are, shall we say colliding with one another, we get "the baby blues". If we're lucky, that's all we get.
Hopefully this little biology lesson has clarified a couple of things for you. Have a nice day.
Both stories were front page material in all major newspapers, FOX News, CNN and your local 6:00 News. I guess we just see what we want to see, eh?
"Since you are so emotionally involved with this topic, you should investigate the psychological and physiological differences between men and women. I'd venture a guess about your two examples...the mother was planning to leave the man. Am I right?"
You know what they say about judgement prior to investigation don't you? It's called prejudice, the prerequisite for all feminists. Thanks for proving my point for me dear.
(a).Woman kills children and self; feminist conclusion = she's whacko.
(b). Man kills children and self; feminist conclusion = he was jilted.
I hope you're beginning to see your built-in prejudices and fermenting feminism by now. :o)
P.S. Do you think the 1.5 million abortions each year in America that women have, (and fight tooth-and-nail to keep legal), are responsible for some of this child killing going on all over America these days? There has got to be some reason behind all these mothers killing their children. They drown them, abandon them to the elements, suffocate them; it's like the new national sport. :o(
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