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To: Aquinasfan; bondserv; exmarine
C'mon fellas. If you're going to reduce everything to matter in motion

I hate to break the party, but there's a little demon lurking in your reply--quiet perhaps, but he's there and no doubt he's to blame and not you.

There must be a limit to your application of the the principle of non-contradiction, which is a principle of logic. For it is conceivably possible on the analogy of those who reduce everything to matter in motion that others have come along and reduced everthing to logic. Some posts have already hinted at the distance between thought and the phenomena, while yours notes a possible reduction (a no-no) in closing that distance. This can also happen in the appeal to logic and the principle of contradiction.

Perhaps the "logic of self-refutation is lost on these people" but one must remember that if you take logic literally, you undercut your own program--they'll come to get you too (if they haven't already).

The standard cannot be a dead letter. The standard is not the principle of non-contradiction. That makes epistemology trump existence(Hank Kerchief knows that to be a no-no).

498 posted on 07/11/2003 10:55:38 AM PDT by cornelis (fans of Aquinas visiting the ghost of Aristotle)
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To: cornelis
This can also happen in the appeal to logic and the principle of contradiction.

Any attempt to invalidate the law of non-contradiction will involve the use of terms. The use of terms necessarily presupposes the validity of the law of non-contradiction.

The law of non-contradiction is truely irreducible and irrefutable.

505 posted on 07/11/2003 11:53:14 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: cornelis
There must be a limit to your application of the the principle of non-contradiction, which is a principle of logic. For it is conceivably possible on the analogy of those who reduce everything to matter in motion that others have come along and reduced everthing to logic.

Logic is the only way to communicate. Further, non-contradiction is not merely a principle of logic - it applies universally to all reality - it's the principle of "antithesis." I either exist or I don't exist. The leaf is either green or it isn't. ANTITHESIS is the only rational method by which a human being can function in this world.

Perhaps the "logic of self-refutation is lost on these people" but one must remember that if you take logic literally, you undercut your own program--they'll come to get you too (if they haven't already).

I don't know what you mean by "literally" - logic is the only method we have to communicate - it is a reality in itself. Let them come to get me - if my logic is sound, it is sound. The moment they try to refute the Law of contradiction, they will be violating the law of contradiction. As Zacarias said, "the more you try to hammer the law of contradiction, the more it hammers you."

The standard cannot be a dead letter. The standard is not the principle of non-contradiction. That makes epistemology trump existence(Hank Kerchief knows that to be a no-no).

Again, the Law of contradiction merely EMPLOYS the standard and that standard is ANTITHESIS. The atheist's brain is either subject to the same material laws as the creationist's brain, or it isn't. Which is it?

512 posted on 07/11/2003 3:00:57 PM PDT by exmarine
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To: cornelis; Aquinasfan; bondserv; exmarine
There must be a limit to your application of the the principle of non-contradiction, which is a principle of logic. For it is conceivably possible on the analogy of those who reduce everything to matter in motion that others have come along and reduced everthing to logic.

No, we cannot throw logic away. That would turn us into nothing more than beasts. There may be things which seem contradictory, in fact many of them, that is why we see this dualism in philosophy almost everywhere we look. However, we know that reality is not destroying itself, it somehow works and there must be an explanation for the contradictions we see. Whether all of them can be resolved or not will ultimately depend on our abilities. However, giving up the search, which is what throwing away the law of non-contradiction would do, is opening the way to complete irrationality and total subjectivism.

527 posted on 07/11/2003 7:05:15 PM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
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