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To: boris
The idea of outputs not a function of inputs as being free will can be analyzed from two viewpoints at a minimum. One, the classical, linear, viewpoint would say that outputs should follow inputs based on a set state of organization or, if you will, an internal program for living that is, more or less, fixed for the purposes of survival, success, self development, achievement, etc.. I believe you and I may fall into this or a similar category. Then you have at another extreme, a romantic type. One can't assume anything as the stimulus of the minute has influence weighted as highly as the objective of the day. Their internal program, I think, is open for many more inputs, whether important to our values or not. It causes actions without regard for any of the values and reasons I mentioned above. I know, I, like my father-in-law, and business partner, married one.
330 posted on 07/09/2003 1:15:30 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Final Authority
"The idea of outputs not a function of inputs as being free will can be analyzed from two viewpoints at a minimum. One, the classical, linear, viewpoint would say that outputs should follow inputs based on a set state of organization or, if you will, an internal program for living that is, more or less, fixed for the purposes of survival, success, self development, achievement, etc.. I believe you and I may fall into this or a similar category.

Then you have at another extreme, a romantic type. One can't assume anything as the stimulus of the minute has influence weighted as highly as the objective of the day. Their internal program, I think, is open for many more inputs, whether important to our values or not. It causes actions without regard for any of the values and reasons I mentioned above. I know, I, like my father-in-law, and business partner, married one."

Well we are talking classic determinsim vs. free will. Even the "Romantic" type has a past history. A hard-line determinist will say that the very fact that the "Romantic" is a romantic is the result of past inputs, stretching back to the beginning of the Universe.

Every effect has a cause (if you believe in causality). Therefore the "Romantic" type has a cause.

Many people confuse determinism with predictability. Deterministic systems can be unpredictable. For example, the orbits of the planets are deterministic but were unpredictable before Newton, Copernicus, and Kepler.

Even so-called 'chaotic' systems, like the weather and the famous "sand piling" experiment are driven by causality. They may (and probably will) remain unpredictable for a long time; I assert that they are nevertheless caused and hence deterministic.

The famous "Mandelbrot set" is a fractal which depends on a simple algorithm (I wrote my own when I first saw it in Scientific American in 1989)..but it is semi-un-predictable...

Predictability says things about human capacity to understand and make projections. Determinism is more about the deep structure of reality.

--Boris

372 posted on 07/10/2003 2:08:37 AM PDT by boris (The deadliest Weapon of Mass Destruction in History is a Leftist With a Word Processor)
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