Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ala. Judge Loses Ten Commandments Appeal
Washington Post ^ | July 1, 2003 | Associated Press

Posted on 07/01/2003 2:47:12 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian

ATLANTA - A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that a Ten Commandments monument the size of a washing machine must be removed from the Alabama Supreme Court building.

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously affirmed a ruling by a federal judge who said that the 2 1/2-ton granite monument, placed there by Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

[snip]

Moore put the monument in the rotunda of the courthouse in the middle of the night two summers ago. The monument features tablets bearing the Ten Commandments and historical quotations about the place of God in law.

[click link to read remainder of article]

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: churchandstate; roymoore; tencommandments
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 301-320321-340341-360 ... 621-630 next last
To: pram
Looks like you are slowly catching up. I've posted a number of questions for you. Gonna take a break and check back with you.
321 posted on 07/01/2003 10:39:03 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 317 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
lugsoul. What a name. Sick and weighted dead at the soul.

Your lord has named you well.

322 posted on 07/01/2003 10:40:01 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 321 | View Replies]

To: Kevin Curry
Mr. Curry, you are truly a class act. Got anything more?
323 posted on 07/01/2003 10:43:15 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 322 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul

You speak from ignorance. A Hindu who worships God with form does not view the clay idol as a god. Rather, he or she projects their immanent divinity onto the clay sculpture in order to worship God.

324 posted on 07/01/2003 10:46:43 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 312 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other God before me - remember, this was Yahweh speaking. No making of graven images? Well, Buddhism at least would seem to be in violation of this one, and I'm sure other faiths as well. Keeping the Sabbath Holy? (Again, the reference here was to the Jewish Sabbath - the change to the Christian Sabbath is too complicated to address here).

This is how I would interperet those commandments, in terms of my religous understanding:

I am the Lord your God. That is the Supreme Godhead speaking, known at that time by those people as Yaweh. He is/was known by other names at other times by other people. No contradiction.

You shall have no other God - don't worship mundane people (see graven images below), communism, tooth fairies, etc.

Graven images - that would mean don't worship idols - idol meaning that which is not God. Don't worship Britney Spears, a sports team, your TV, pornography, or money.

Sabbath holy? In the Hindu religion, there is a holy day that comes twice a month, for fasting and extra prayer and meditation. That fits.

325 posted on 07/01/2003 10:47:25 PM PDT by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 306 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
Do you not believe that the Ten Commandments prohibit worship to an idol of God?
326 posted on 07/01/2003 10:49:38 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 324 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
Did you not see that the Court relied, in part, on Judge Moore's refusal to give "equal time" to other religious sources?

I still don't see a problem. Why should someone - even a judge - be forced to acclaim viewpoints that aren't his? But that's only part of it. The 10 Commandments are historical and the founders of this country were tremendously influenced by them, and considered them actually necessary and basic to the functioning of the country.

327 posted on 07/01/2003 10:50:37 PM PDT by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 309 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
The worship of an idol as proscibed by the 10 Commandments relates to those cruel religions which dotted the region thousands of years ago. Hinduism is not a pagan religion in my book, but is a highly advanced and valid religion. There are Protestants who wrongly charge that Catholics worship idols, too.
328 posted on 07/01/2003 10:53:25 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 326 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
Do not Hindus worship to idols or statutes of Hindu deities?

I address that above - idols doesn't mean a statue or painting religious in nature. Look at icons of Jesus, Mother Mary and other saints in Orthodox Christianity. I've been in Catholic churches with statues of Jesus, Mary and saints which were revered. Idols mean statues or forms of something that isn't holy or spiritual.

(when I walk around at night and see the blue flickering light from all the houses, I joke about people worshipping at the blue altar! Now that is idolatry!)

329 posted on 07/01/2003 10:54:30 PM PDT by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 312 | View Replies]

To: pram
I appreciate your view of those Commandments. I assure you, however, that your interpretation is not the dominant view of those Commandments in either the Jewish or Christian faiths from which they are derived. Nor are those views compatible with the religious views of those Commandments expressed by Judge Moore.

In the dominant view in Christianity, neither Buddha nor Yahweh nor Allah is God. And unless one's faith accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and accepts his teachings, one is not in compliance with these Commandments. And you don't get to pick and choose your Sabbath - it was chosen by God.

As I said, I appreciate your view. In Judge Moore's world, the judicial system of the State of Alabama does not.

I also asked whether you believe that, under the U.S. Constitution, a state can favor one religion over others. That is exactly what Moore claimed to do.

330 posted on 07/01/2003 10:56:00 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
And why is that charge wrong? Do the Jews, in whose faith these Commandments were issued, view the use of idols of God in worship as proper?
331 posted on 07/01/2003 10:57:55 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 328 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
I also asked whether you believe that, under the U.S. Constitution, a state can favor one religion over others.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.

Doesn't say anything about what any of the states may do...

332 posted on 07/01/2003 10:59:19 PM PDT by Kryptonite (Free Miguel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 330 | View Replies]

To: pram
It is not the proclamation of the Judge's views that is at issue. It is the proclamation of the state's views, with the Judge deciding which views are the state's, and which are not.
333 posted on 07/01/2003 10:59:33 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 327 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
Do you really believe that a state can favor one religion over others under the U.S. Constitution?\

Promoting and excluding are two different things. One religion (Christianity in this case, especially since it is the principle religion of this country and the founders were mostly at least nominal Christians) can be promoted - or helped - without necessarily prohibiting other religions. If that happens, Hindus will be some of the first to be discriminated against, since unfortunately so many people who consider themselves Christians do not have the charitable or broadminded views I ascribe to.

At this point, I am a lot more concerned about bias against religion in general, using the false "seperation" argument than I am about Christianity becoming a state mandated religion.

334 posted on 07/01/2003 11:00:29 PM PDT by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 316 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
The charge is wrong simply because Catholics do not worship statues. You are free to ask a priest if you do not believe me.
335 posted on 07/01/2003 11:00:44 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 331 | View Replies]

To: pram

Well said. Moral-liberalism is a religion in itself, much as atheism is.

336 posted on 07/01/2003 11:01:43 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 334 | View Replies]

To: lugsoul
It is not the proclamation of the Judge's views that is at issue. It is the proclamation of the state's views, with the Judge deciding which views are the state's, and which are not.

You mean, like the SCOTUS deciding that the US Federal view prohibits criminalizing sodomy, or permits racial discrimination in pursuit of diversity?

337 posted on 07/01/2003 11:03:45 PM PDT by Kryptonite (Free Miguel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 333 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
You speak from ignorance. A Hindu who worships God with form does not view the clay idol as a god. Rather, he or she projects their immanent divinity onto the clay sculpture in order to worship God.\

Not exactly right - more like this: Since everything is God's energy, a statue or painting depicting Him is not seperate from Him, and for a fully surrendered soul, they see Him in that form. It's not that they project by their own mind. God becomes that form. Kind of like the Orthodox view of icons, as far as I know.

338 posted on 07/01/2003 11:04:24 PM PDT by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 324 | View Replies]

To: Kryptonite
Kyptonite, that is an old argument that has been dispensed with by an entire body of constitutional jurisprudence. Simply stated, the admonitions of the 14th Amendment are incorporate the Bill of Rights against the states - that is, the Bill of Rights establishes some parameters of "liberty," and no state may deprive a citizen of that liberty.

Under your argument, a number of other things would also be permissible. For example, a state could pass laws limiting free speech. A state could establish a state religion. A state could restrict freedom of the press. Under the text of the First Amendment, only Congress is prohibited from doing such things. Do you think that state governments are allowed, for example, to criminalize open criticism of the state government? If your interpretation were correct, there would be no bar to a state doing so.

339 posted on 07/01/2003 11:04:53 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 332 | View Replies]

To: pram
The Court stated as plainly as can be stated that, if the Judge had chosen to honor religious sources of law other than those which promote his own views, the display would be permissible. Why is this an attack on religion? Clearly, if the Judge had placed a monument to many different sources of religious law, it would be permissible under the Constitution.
340 posted on 07/01/2003 11:08:20 PM PDT by lugsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 334 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 301-320321-340341-360 ... 621-630 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson