[jethropalerobber]

Natural drives need not be indulged. There have been many celibate homosexuals in history. You seem to want to cheapen their accomplishment in controlling their impulses.

satisfying our physical drives is not 'indulgence'. do you feel guilty every time your give in to the urge to drink a glass of water?

celibacy is about as much of an 'accomplishment' as getting off 7 times in one night is.

[aristeides]

I think you have revealed yourself to be a secular humanist. Certainly you have the attitudes of one. I hope you will have the sense to realize that you are living off the capital of a Christian civilization, and that, to the extent our civilization ceases to be Christian, it will have a very limited lifetime. That is to say, people like you can only live humanist lives to the extent that you allow the bulk of society to remain Christian. If you end that, you not only doom us, you doom yourselves.