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UK troops 'killed by civilians' UK troops 'killed by civilians'
BBC ^ | 6-25-03 | bbc

Posted on 06/25/2003 10:06:00 AM PDT by AdamSelene235

Six UK soldiers killed in Iraq were shot by civilians after weapons searches in homes turned into a bloody showdown, according to residents.

And Prime Minister Tony Blair told the Commons tension between British troops and Iraqis reluctant to disarm could have led to the killings.

The soldiers' deaths could lead to the deployment of thousands of extra troops to Iraq as an urgent review of troop numbers, tactics and equipment gets under way.

British commanders in Iraq described the deaths as "unprovoked murder" and were searching for the killers.

Mr Blair paid tribute to the dead soldiers, saying they had been doing "an extraordinary and heroic job trying to provide a normal and decent life for people in Iraq".

Tuesday 0730 BST: Two British vehicles attacked on patrol in Majar al-Kabir by Iraqi gunmen who injure one soldier. A Chinook arrives in support and a further seven paratroopers are injured 1200 BST: Six military policemen found dead at police station in the same town

How it happened

All of the dead belonged to 156 Provost Company, part of the 16th Air Assault Brigade, based in Colchester.

Their bodies were found at a police station in a village near Amara, about 100 miles north of Basra.

Mr Blair said more details should become clear in the next 24 hours, but a "background" of problems in the province could have contributed to the deaths.

"There [were] attempts by British forces to make sure that the local population who regularly carry machineguns and small firearms were disarmed of those weapons."

Iraqis were angry at the way soldiers were searching their houses for weapons, said BBC correspondent Clive Myrie.

British troops and local leaders had agreed that troops could search homes once they had given notice, he said.

RMP TROOPS KILLED IN IRAQ

'Shock' over soldiers' deaths

While locals said the contract had been broken as no notice was given, defence officials have denied the claims.

After following the soldiers to the police station, the Iraqis say the British fired the first shots on a peaceful demonstration. This provoked the Iraqis to fire back and storm the police station in anger, Clive Myrie said.

"Scores of people attacked the police station, not just four or five, not just a dozen, so it may be difficult to point the finger of blame," he added.

Lieutenant Colonel Ronnie McCourt told Reuters news agency: "This attack was unprovoked. It was murder."

Some reports said up to four Iraqis were also killed.

Attacks condemned

The Iraqi National Congress condemned the attacks and said the "overwhelming" majority of Iraqis were grateful to the coalition for removing Saddam Hussein.

"We give our deepest sympathies to the families of those soldiers who have died giving hope to a nation that has suffered for so long," said the congress's Ahmad Chalabi.

Abdulaziz al Hakim, deputy leader of the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the biggest organisation in Iraq representing Shia Muslims, told the BBC people objected in particular to troops searching houses and women.

In a separate attack in the same area, seven British soldiers were injured when their helicopter came under fire. Two of the casualties were seriously injured.

Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon told BBC Radio 4's Today programme there were "many thousands" of troops which could be sent to Iraq if deemed necessary.

The incidents mark the heaviest losses to enemy action in a single day by US-led coalition forces since the war was declared largely over on 1 May.

It is also the heaviest loss of British life in a single hostile incident since UK forces entered Iraq at the start of the war in March.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: majaralkabir; uk

1 posted on 06/25/2003 10:06:00 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: AdamSelene235
It sounds like they didn't want to give up their weapons. After we left them high and dry after the first Gulf War I'm sure I would have wanted to keep my gun too. So these Brits under "gun control" try to disarm a group that was "allied" and they were supposed to gladly hand over their weapons and depend on the Brits and US to protect them in case somebody else comes at them for reprisals or to loot their homes.

The Brits fire "rubber" or "non lethal" bullets..... so Ali, Akbar, and Muhamadem decide that they get to shoot back..... but they don't have rubber bullets.

I guess they want the 2nd amendment in Iraq.

don't get me wrong... the deaths were awful..but put yourself in the Iraqi's shoes for a moment and think about what "disarming" the civilians is all about.

I think we should arm the souther Iraqis and seal off Norther Iraq. Let them shoot it out and give the ones we like the supplies to kill the ones who are targeting us. Therefore we let the Iraqis take care of their own problem.

2 posted on 06/25/2003 10:17:43 AM PDT by Dick Vomer
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To: AdamSelene235; BartMan1
Here's the 2nd amendment redux.

It seems odd that the King's men should be trying to disarm the people.

And while this is troubling, I don't doubt the left will make hay of it.

I would suggest that the solution is to empower a militia, 'deputize' them, and let them keep their guns.

An armed socitety is a polite society.
3 posted on 06/25/2003 10:21:02 AM PDT by IncPen
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To: IncPen
I believe that several people on Freerepublic predicted this. I would not give up my weapons.

I notice that at least some attempt is being made to allow people to have weapons in the areas the U.S. controls.

4 posted on 06/25/2003 10:29:39 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Dick Vomer
Your's is a good obsevation.

British politicians are primarily socialist and socialist politicians are "Gun control" nuts because they fear those they essentially enslave with socialist economic edicts.

5 posted on 06/25/2003 10:32:26 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice
British politicians are primarily socialist and socialist politicians are "Gun control" nuts because they fear those they essentially enslave with socialist economic edicts.

I'm not entirely clear on how we are going to "build a free society" in Iraq when its clear our politicians aren't even interested in a free society at home much less abroad.

6 posted on 06/25/2003 10:36:24 AM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
to "build a free society" ...

... will require a close following of the American Revolution model

"We the people" of America granted limited power to government while reserving massive power within "the people," aka ... individual citizens.

7 posted on 06/25/2003 10:42:03 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: Aaron0617
An armed socitety is a polite society.

Like everyone else here I cringed when Paul Bremer said Iraqis must give up all their guns. I was glad he later changed it to they can keep their handguns and assault rifles. At their home AND at their businesses.

Brits should allow the same.

8 posted on 06/25/2003 10:45:19 AM PDT by Aaron0617
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To: thinktwice
We the people" of America granted limited power to government while reserving massive power within "the people," aka ... individual citizens.

No that was just the spin in the Federalist papers. In reality there very few limitations on government power. Just look around.

9 posted on 06/25/2003 10:52:38 AM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: Dick Vomer
Yep, I'll be go to hell if anyone is going to dis-arm me without death being the price. I too feel for the brit troop's, perhaps the command should rethink their strategy. If this went down as I have heard, they got exactly what I would deal them, hands down! Live Free (not without arms) or Die (gonna happen anyway). Blackbird.
10 posted on 06/25/2003 11:56:10 AM PDT by BlackbirdSST
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To: AdamSelene235
No that was just the spin in the Federalist papers. In reality there very few limitations on government power. Just look around.

That's OUR fault, not that of our forefather's. A little water for the Tree of Freedom, and that too can be corrected, it's not too late! Blackbird.

11 posted on 06/25/2003 11:59:31 AM PDT by BlackbirdSST
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To: BlackbirdSST
That's OUR fault, not that of our forefather's.

Nope it was the Founding Lawyers plan all along.

Why do you think Patrick Henry refused to attend the Constitutional Convention?

Read the constitution carefully. What's a "reasonable" search? According to the Terry doctrine much of the inside of your car can be searched without a warrant.

Troops in your home? Sure, if its "prescribed by law".

Congress is strictly limited in its powers, right? Oh, unless its in the "general welfare". Gee, that's awfully broad.

Trial by jury? Try to take on the IRS. Do you honestly think you will get jury trial? In your dreams buddy. Jury trials are only for "criminal cases" remember.

The Founding Lawyers were smart. This is not an accident it is the very intent of the Constitution. Remember the elites were faced with a rowdy illiterate mob. They wanted a government that could preserve itself even against the wishes of the people and that is exactly what they designed.

12 posted on 06/25/2003 12:11:20 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
Dont map your second amendment arguments onto what is happening in Iraq.

The weapons the US is confiscating are rocket propelled grenade, machine guns... the kind of stuff the irregular Fedayeen Sadaam are using to attack our troops.

The paramilitaries have been experimenting with using the 'angry arab street' to get the drop on our troops. These were not civillians because expressions of free speech in the west normally do not involve to the firing of small arms at people.

The arab street trick works only because we let it work. We basically train them how to make us back down.

13 posted on 06/25/2003 2:01:27 PM PDT by Dialup Llama
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To: Dialup Llama
Dont map your second amendment arguments onto what is happening in Iraq.

I haven't said a single thing about the 2nd in this thread, Einstein.

14 posted on 06/25/2003 2:04:22 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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