Split Decision: Supreme court upholds grad policy, strikes Undergrad

MSNBC Live | 06-23-03

[finnman69]

I said they can use the point system still when they also include race as a point earning merit. Without the race consideration point systems are fine.

But many colleges use the point system so to continue with that system they will have to be race blind OR change their system by which they measure candidates.

[Hostage]

I disagree. A decision to admit a person on the basis of race is not a quota. Right or wrong, it a decision. An admissions committee can decide based on race. There is nothing stopping such a committee from deciding at a graduate or undergraduate level.

If race is allowed as a decision factor, then there is no way to decide when to use race and when not to use race that will be free from any claim of illegal quota. Therefore using race as a factor in admissions must rely on a decision as to the desired composition of the student body.

Because of this ambiguity, there will be claims of usage of illegal quotas but courts will uphold the decision process if there is no usage of a point system.

For an admissions officer, why/how would they use race in the decision to accept/reject without resort to a preconceived number that is desired to be admitted? How would such a decision process be codified by an academic senate? The answer will always be in reference to some notion of diversified balance meaning percentages. So long as a point system is not used, affirmative action will be upheld.

Conservatives that are unhappy with this prospect will have to turn their attention to defunding publically funded education institutions and throw their support behind private institutions. A degree achieved by a black person at say the University of Southern California or Stanford will be potentially more valuable than at the University of California Berkeley if race was not used in the admissions process. A UCB degree of a Chico State degree achieved by a black person will always be under suspicion. I cannot fathom how any black person worth their salt could want it any different.

[autoresponder]

Good quote about Loserman!

Business will indeed be covered by the SCOTUS "undergrad" banning of affirmative action and/or point systems!

[cyborg]

I've seen african-american on some apps and black on others... alway optional. Considering that my mother is a african-spanish-french-dutch... to infinity creole mix from the West Indies, they won't ever have enough space for me to list everything. It is about the color of skin. If they were interested in righting past wrongs, they'd limit the AA programs to qualified descents of black American slaves. Today it's all about scholarship money as well. Public schools also have private scholarships available for many different ethnic groups.

[Chairman_December_19th_Society]

But many colleges use the point system so to continue with that system they will have to be race blind OR change their system by which they measure candidates.

Yes, they will no longer add points to minorities. They will decrement points from whites.

[TLBSHOW]

but Bush has been a profoud disappointment

....

That is truth except on the war on terror.

[Howlin]

When you use a percentage it IS a quota.

[HumanaeVitae]

classroom aesthetics

Like that.

[sweetliberty]

It is all about money and political power you mean? All of these policies, if the surface is scratched, are hypocritical and deceptive.

[arasina]

See my post #306. My pitiful way of expressing what you stated so succinctly. Thank you.

[george wythe]

Somebody please explain to me the difference between then there and here now!

Private and religious colleges do not have to accept federal money and all the strings attached to it.

That option was not available during the communist era to anyone.

There are still a few private and religious schools that have not sold their sold to the federal government for filthy lucre

[Hostage]

You lose. How you going to prove it? It is not a point system. The admissions committee is laughing at you, worse yet, ignoring you.

You have no legal ground to stand on unless you can document it but an admissions committee need only consider race not a percentage.

Game over, you lose.

[ModernDayCato]

Uh, sure.

Is your medication wearing off? Look up a few posts to this little gem:

I fond [sic] your statement ill-conceived at best, and flat oput [sic] ignorant at worst.

And I think you should re-read your own posts. The stuff you're quoting makes my argument, which is that while America is racially and religiously diverse, we used to have a unique culture that was an amalgamation of those diverse races, religions and cultures.

Here, let me try to simplify it a little for you: Our diversity truly used to be our strength, because all of the different groups that came together as Americans added something to the culture and BECAME AMERICAN. Not black, white, green, purple, Irish, Italian, Jewish, Catholic, short, fat, male, female. AMERICAN. You know -- the greatest country in the world.

O'Connor's assertion that one American with a certain skin color, or gender, or religion or ethnic background should be treated differently than any other American is so un-American as to be offensive. And that's what you appear to be defending as 'racial diversity.'

[agitator]

"Ordered Attorney-General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, NOT a leftist-imagined "collective" right."

You can strike that one off the list as it was a non-event. The govt position on those alleged individual rights is that they are still subject to BATF regulation and I haven't seen a single regulation leave the books yet nor have I heard any call from Mr. Ashcroft that any of the unconstitutional federal gun statutes be repealed. Please let me know when either of these things happen otherwise, it's so much pro-wrestling or hollywood if you prefer.

[autoresponder]

One very simple question for choosing an attorney or any law firm now:

What law schools did you or all members of your law firm attend and/or graduate from?

[cyborg]

YES. That's exactly what I am saying. Hey if a school takes in an unqualified minority, they don't care. If the person can't handle it, they'll drop out and the school will still get their MONEY and their stamp of approval from Jesse Jackson. It IS hypocritical and deceptive on both sides.

[Dane]

That is truth except on the war on terror

Yet you ignore that O'Connor(the swing vote) was a Reagan appointemnt.

Isn't Reagan a big disappoint to you also, Todd.

[gitmo]

Another nail in the coffin of the Constitution. And of Liberty.

We hold these truths to be self-evident. That some races are more important than others.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"O'Connor's assertion that one American with a certain skin color, or gender, or religion or ethnic background should be treated differently than any other American is so un-American as to be offensive."

An assertion which mirrors the US Constitution.

Unless you can find an earlier example of the concept of three-fifths a person anywhere.

[autoresponder]

Can't you see the screaming at Stanford today about the undergrad decision?