Posted on 06/20/2003 1:23:06 PM PDT by Alouette
You'll never stop us; we hide the C-4 and nails in our A*s!!!(And we love it!!!)
Where here,where queer,.... bomb your a*s!!!
Now I want to thank you so very much for combining your strong advocacy for Israel with a wholistic Torah worldview that teaches all mankind in every age and land how one is to live. The nudnick who wrote the pro-homosexual article in the Jerusalem Post has doubtless become the poster child for "palaeoconservatives" who insist that Yasser Arafat is somehow going to save the world for decency and morality and that every homosexual activist on earth receives his instructions directly from 'Ari'el Sharon. But unfortunately his message has become a main component of "pro-Israel" rhetoric. Israel is a "democracy," Israel is "western," Israel is a product of the same tradition that created the United States of America and the modern post-enlightenment West. Blakh.
However, before we get too embarrassed or stutter too defensively before our "palaeoconservative" critics let us remember that their entire pose, their entire pretenses to morality, are phony. They are frauds from beginning to end as may be easily demonstrated.
First, as with Communists, they are very selective about just which "gays" they oppose. Any "gay" who is anti-Israel (Gore Vidal, Justin Raimondo, perhaps Arafat himself) are embraced as allies just as enthusiastically as anti-Zionist Communists who are hailed as "honest" Communists (because the Jews who "created Communism" lost control of their creation and it fell into the hands of people they could not control). This blatantly eliminates both Communism and homosexuality as genuine issues in the "palaeoconservative" community. Each and every single appeal to anti-Communism and anti-homosexuality is proved by these stances of theirs to be thoroughly and completely dishonest and fraudulent. (BTW, I have come to believe that he same people who support Communism when it has been turned against its "creators" also place capitalism and Monotheism in the category of things created to "subvert" the west but which Jews now "oppose" because it has been inculturated by its intended "victims." Don't expect any lying "palaeo" to admit this is his view of religion, however.)
But now let's cut to the nitty-gritty. Some of these people (and I know through personal correspondence), even those who actually consistently take moral positions (assuming such "palaeos" actually exist) take these positions for the exact same reason that Alan Dershowitz supports "social justice"--ie, either groundless personal "hang-ups" or for the practical reason that morality "works" while immorality is corrosive.
Now a certain "palaeocon" who shall be nameless has told me that he defines conservatism by traditional vs. radical (which certainly makes more sense than the nonsensical "big vs. small government" thing one hears so often). The thing is, this person does not believe in HaShem. He "opposes" homosexuality (when not advocated or practiced by a fellow Jew-hater) for some non-Theistic reason. And the thing is, while this fellow thinks he is the exact opposite of Dershowitz to me they are the same thing. They are non-Theistic moralists, and "non-Theistic morality" is an oxymoron. It doesn't matter if the non-Theistic morality advocated is "traditional" or "radical." Do you hear that, some of you freaking Nazi lurkers??? IT DOESN'T MATTER. The whole purpose of opposing homosexuality is to acknowledge HaShem. And the very idea of some denier of HaShem advocating "morality" because their stupid subjective guts tell them homosexuality is wrong (rather than simply submitting to the decrees of HaShem) is ridiculous. No "palaeoconservative" therefore, can be said to advocate "morality" since "morality" is based on the decrees of the Jewish G-d. Similarly Dershowitz cannot advocate "justice" since G-d defines this is well. Dershowitz and these people are ultimately the same, however many people that offends. Anti-Semitic "morality" is merely another form of atheistic "social justice."
I want to thank you also for posting genuine Jewish information on the Bible as well, Alouette. The biggest secret in the world is that Orthodox Judaism is the most "Biblical fundamentalist" religion on earth. Unfortunately even most Orthodox Jewish rhetoric aimed at the non-Jewish world awards only "tolerance," despite the fact that the "tolerant" people are the very ones who deny the Divine origin of the Holy Torah. If the true Orthodox Jewish concept of the Bible ever becomes generally known I believe that there will be a stampede out of confused, liberal, decadent, decaying, liberal chr*stianity and to Nochut. Unfortunately, the "tolerance" rhetoric imply that Judaism is Biblically liberal so most people never learn. As I said, it's the biggest secret in the world.
Once again, Alouette, thank you for taking the stands you do, for doing so publically, and in the name of the G-d and Torah of Israel. My apologies again for the tardiness of this post.
In closing (and with regard to the recent Supreme Court decision here in America), perhaps some day a liberal "rights" organization will challenge the laws against murder on the grounds that they merely enforce a sectarian religious taboo. After all, that's what morality is. And without G-d "thou shalt not kill" is as imaginary as Dershowitz's G-dless "justice" or the "palaeos'" G-dless "morality."
Shabbat shalom.
Yes, but this is the "freedom" that led to two churbanim (-ot?) and two exiles. The Kahanists are right--the government of the "Jewish" state has fallen into the hands of heretics.
Now Yehoshu`a Bin Nun, that was a prime minister!
Never has anything been more obviously true, yet treated as though it were not. Chr*stianity is always seen as l'ancien regime while the older religion of Judaism is treated as some sort of younger freethinking heresy, the expression of which requires a post-modern, enlightenment world. When will this illusion be dispelled?
The most tragic thing are those Jews who never hear of G-d until from the Notzerim and who convert to that religion convinced that it is the only form of Biblicism or religiosity that exists. Then their misguided efforts to confront their brethren is cast as a crusade to awaken "freethining heretics" to religion. But how did this religion, which is a thousand years later than Sinai, whose founder contradicted the Bible and the laws of G-d so explicitly, ever come to be perceived as so "conservative?"
J*sus may be a conservative icon, but he was an irreverent iconoclast. Most iconoclasts eventually become icons of conservative societies, from Jefferson to Marx.
The inter-Jewish debate now is too often between combatting chr*stianity in the name of secularism or else acquiescing to the leadership of that false religion to save the world. Whatever happened about letaqqen `olam bemalkhut Shaqqay? That is the true Jewish position.
I would add just a word of caution here for those FReepers who are unfamiliar with the topic of Judaism and capital punishment, who might take this statement as teaching that Judaism does not really inflict capital punishment at all. It is true that the carrying out of death sentences must be carried out according to the Oral Law and that this does indeed set severe boundaries. For one thing, the person must have previously been formally warned before two witnesses (I think the number is two) that he is engaged in an activity that is punishable by death. If this warning has not been given, the person cannot be put to death by the court. Also, there must be at least two witnesses to the exact same overt act. Two witness, each of whom witnessed a different act, are not sufficient. Neither is confession by the person himself admissible, or hearsay, or circumstantial evidence (though the King of Israel has the authority to order one executed based on circumstantial evidence). Also, as I understand it, people not mentally competent may not be put to death.
Now it is true that with all these requirements in place that capital punishment under the Torah is indeed rarer than might be at first assumed by a mere reading of the Written Torah itself (the Talmud noted that a court that inflicted the death penalty once in seventy years was considered brutal). However, it must be stressed that if anyone met all these criteria he had to be put to death by the court. In fact, the Torah specifically forbids having mercy on someone who has met all the criteria for being put to death.
Also, even in those cases where someone has committed a capital crime but has not met the criteria which would allow the death sentence by the court, HaShem Himself reserves the right to inflict the penalty. I have read that, for example, someone guilty of a crime punishable by death by strangulation, but who cannot be punished by the court, may choke to death while eating. It requires a total trust in G-d to obey Him even when He forbids the human court to take action for some technical reason when the person has done something worthy of death. The lack of this type of faith shows just far yeridat hador (the regression of humanity through the generations) has come.
Finally, the laws for Benei Noach (non-Jews) are somewhat different. While confessions and circumstantial evidence are still not admissible, no prior warning is required and only one witness is necessary. Also, as I understand it, a non-Jew is responsible for obeying the Noachide laws even if he is ignorant of them. So the fact that the current state of Israel does not have the authority under the Torah to enact the death penalty (and that Torah Jews must not allow it to do this) does not mean that Torah requires a crusade against the death penalty among non-Jews. However, our current legal system is not that commanded by HaShem, and only one form of capital punishment--death by beheading--is permitted to non-Jews. It is imperative for Jews and non-Jews to educate themselves and fight for obedience to G-d in our laws and systems of justice, and this includes not only the fight to maintain capital punishment but also to see to it that it is carried out only in accordance with Divine instructions. I am afraid we are a long way from there yet.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.