Church tosses defiant minister: He refused to stop performing gay marriages

The Cincinnati Enquirer ^ | Tuesday, June 17, 2003 | Andrea Uhde

[ohioWfan]

Dirty, underhanded? What in the world are you talking about?? What needed to be private? That you think of me as inferior because I haven't come to the same conclusions based on my study of Scripture? Everyone can see that whether they agree with you or not. I just told you to be careful of assuming you have all the answers because you clearly do not.

I also gave Scriptural as well as experiential support of my position, but you don't agree. So be it.

All I know, is that I am doing what God has called me to do, and it doesn't matter one whit if you like it, or agree.

I answer to God alone.....not to strangers on a political forum.

btw, read Esther again with an open mind......I mean without the goal of defending your set-in-concrete opinion. You might just learn something.

[ohioWfan]

Read your two posts to me, Motherbear. Try to see what's really there.

Maybe you weren't TRYING to make the parallel......I'm not sure why, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.....but it sure LOOKS like that's what you were doing.

Read it again.

[AppyPappy]

Ahhh....good example. Let's look at the Scripture: 1 Corinthians 14 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Note that Paul says "in ALL the congregations". Of course, women were not allowed to hold leadership positions so there was no need for them to speak. They were to follow the example of Mary of Mary&Martha fame. Now, you read this and you seem to conclude that Paul was only speaking to the church in Corinth although there is no evidence that he limited it to that church alone. As a matter of fact, he seems to be explicitly speaking of all churches. So my question is : What Scriptural evidence do you have to refute Paul's admonition? Note: I'm not telling you to keep quiet in church. I'm asking why you draw the conclusion that you draw. Why do you believe what you believe?

In the olden days, people thought they were Saved by their piousness, despite Scripture to the contrary. If people had bothered to read and study Scripture instead of blindly follwing tradition, they would have seen they were wrong. We have the same problem today. Instead of reading and studying Scripture, we just blindly follow traditions. When Scripture runs contrary to our beliefs, we chuck Scripture out the window.

[AppyPappy]

The meaning is clear: anyone who wishes to base his or her beliefs on the witness of the Old Testament must be completely consistent and demand the death penalty for everyone who performs homosexual acts.

Note: The literal interpretation for your "shall be put to death" is "surely they will die". Interesting.

[ohioWfan]

Just a quick question first. Do you consider it a 'disgrace' for the women in your church to speak, so that they are totally silent? Or do you 'interpret' this passage, and accept it at a different degree?

[ohioWfan]

btw, I'm not chucking anything out the window. I believe in the inerrancy of God's Word, as the source of what I believe, and how I should live. I consider it historically accurate, and true.

Just in case you were lumping me in with others who don't hold the same beliefs, for the sake of your argument, as many are wont to do on this forum.

[AppyPappy]

Neither. I acknowledge that the Scripture says what it says. The Scripture does not instruct us to make women silent. It just says they should be silent.

[Lady Eileen]

Where in the bible does it say women...should have no say in religion?

Of course the Bible doesn't say women should have "no say in religion," but that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not women are to lead or teach men in church. And the Bible is very clear that women are not to teach or lead men in church:

(1) Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived... [1 Timothy 2:11-14]

(2) As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but be in submission, as the Lord also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church...

If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. [1 Corinthians 14:34-35, 37]

[AppyPappy]

Once again, I'm asking why you reach the conclusions that you reach. I'm not telling you to keep quiet or that you can't be a deacon. I'm telling you what Scripture says. I'm not "interpreting" it. I'm just stating it.

[Xenalyte]

About one-third of the 280 members of the Mount Auburn church are gay.

Does that number seem strangely high to anyone else? Or is the church in a predominantly happy area?

[ohioWfan]

Apparently my question was not clear.

Do you believe that women should literally be 'silent' as the passage in Corinthians states.

The Scripture says that it is a disgrace for women to speak. Do you believe that literally?

I need to know that specifically for purposes of discussion.

[AppyPappy]

Do you believe that women should literally be 'silent' as the passage in Corinthians states. The Scripture says that it is a disgrace for women to speak. Do you believe that literally?

Once again, that's what the Scripture says. I believe that a woman should be silent in church if she wants to follow Scripture. Perhaps you could cite some Scripture to the contrary and change my mind.

[ohioWfan]

So, in your church, women don't speak? And you believe that's Biblical. Am I correct?

[ohioWfan]

Right. And a good point you make.

ALL of us base our interpretations of what Scripture says on our own positions at times, so it's good to go back to Scripture.....without our predisposed opinions, in as much as is possible.....and see what's really THERE, instead of what we THINK is there.