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Goodness no. I extend many ocean tankers full of grace, the benefit of the doubt, freedom to have other opinions etc. to one and all.

However, it's disappointing when people pontificate on this subject without seeming to have given the other side a reasonable chance and/or without having examined a fair amount of the better evidence available.

Given my sources and my proximity to them as well as my own Navy job . . .

Your rationalizations, assumptions etc. just come off as ill-informed, uninformed or incredibly narrow, rigid, biased and/or grossly ignorant.

I have a lot of respect for Poohbah. He is of a similar bent as you. And while I suspect he hasn't examined a sufficient amount of the better data closely enough--he at least makes a reasonable stab at checking our sources and thinking through things to a degree beyond average for those of his position.

I don't know what he'd do with the audio tape of Astronaut Mitchell played last night. I'd think it would be a bit hard to argue with.

But I've learned that on this subject, minds tend to be set in concrete akin to granite hard almost before the concrete truck has left the site. Amazing.

You're falling all to pieces, take it easy. All I mean to point out is that noone should hang their hat on that TV program; close observation, even by a layman, makes plain that the dudes in lab coats were not scientists, not even poor besotted drunken broke Russian ones. Even the poor loser Russians know a thing or two about The Scientific Method. Pleaaaaaaaaase.