What if Hitler Had Invaded the United States in World War Two?

Ave Maria

[Poohbah]

We rightfully jump on the left for fabricating quotes...but we're supposed to give allegedly "conservative" BS artists a pass.

There's a funny thing about espousing a standard--one is generally expected to live up to it.

[Paleo Conservative]

what if the USA had stayed out of WW I. Let’s say that Germany won. Without the bitter taste of defeat in the mouth and not being under the heals of Europe, would a Socialist party had risen in Germany? Without that feeling of government betrayal, a paper hanger with an Iron Cross perhaps may not have risen up to be Germany’s leader. No Nazi’s. No Holocaust. No death camps. No WW II. Was it not WW I that forced a ridiculous disarmament treaty on the United States. Perhaps, perhaps not. It’s nice and fun to discuss it though.

Would German militarism have been sated if the Germans had won WWI? I don't think so. They may have been tempted to expand some more. Sooner or later the US was going to have to confront and defeat German militarism.

[Jakarta ex-pat]

Oh I Know.

Americans wouldn't have been invaded by the south? (not the confederates.)

[Poohbah]

Would German militarism have been sated if the Germans had won WWI? I don't think so. They may have been tempted to expand some more. Sooner or later the US was going to have to confront and defeat German militarism.

US foreign policy has been, from the earliest days of the Republic, aimed at keeping one power from dominating Europe (now, to keep them from dominating Eurasia).

[kidd]

Read the book, 'Fatherland', by Robert Harris. That is the most likely scenario.

I did. Excellent book. Set in 1964. Kennedy Sr. was President

[plusone]

It's a good thing that the Germans never landed on the English beaches, because the joke would have no effect on them. It is funny (sort of) in English since we use the same word, 'smell' as both a verb and a noun, so you get the play on words. But the German language uses 2 different variations to signify a verb and noun. So translating it into German would produce no gigantic fits of laughter, thus the German soldiers would have marched onwards, unrepelled! Oh, western civilization came oh so close!!!

[plusone]

Too bad it was turned into a low budget, made for TV movie. Why Harris sold the screen rights, when this book could have been a really interesting big screen production, I don''t know.

[GOP_1900AD]

I agree.

[chilepepper]

My old neurons woke up when you mentioned "magazines"...

I remember back in the early sixties a Life magazine (or it may have been the Saturday Evening Post) article with a map of the US w/ the swastika on one side and the rising sun on the other... never read it though since i was only about eight at the time and completely uninterested in such things...

[GOP_1900AD]

The P.1085 was to be QUITE SIMILAR to the TU-95 Bear. The only difference would have pusher props. My guess is they would have ditched the twin tail and gone for a more modern one if it had come to fruition.

[Regulator]

Could it be...might it be...that sarcasm is my real intent with you?

[IvanT]

They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada

The only reason Canada would've been poorly defended at that time, was that the majority of our military (and we had a sizeable one at the time) was over in Europe, unlike another country I know who sat out the first 2+ years of the war.

[GOP_1900AD]

And are we sure there is not a NEW pact between Germany and Russia?..... and the PRC, and the DPRK, and Iran, and .... Very interesting!

[af_vet_rr]

Would German militarism have been sated if the Germans had won WWI? I don't think so. They may have been tempted to expand some more. Sooner or later the US was going to have to confront and defeat German militarism.

I don't think so either, they had the whole "manifest destiny" attitude about a lot of it. A people who believe they are the master race aren't going to settle easily. If they had won WWI, they would have had the attitude of "we won one, why not go further, it's clear the fates are with us".

I think the US, Canada, and Australia/New Zealand (ANZACs and all) would have kept fighting and would have eventually overwhelmed them.

The US was only in the war for a year, how much quicker would it have ended if they went in earlier? Also the US/England was getting into tanks a lot quicker than the Germans were and this changed things drastically (Patton and Eisenhower anyone?).

The biggest barrier to any German/Japanese conquest of the US in WWII was not just the armed population, but the oceans. It's one thing to project power like the Japs did with their carriers and the Germans did with their U-Boats, and entirely another to push a large enough invasion force across the water.

I love the what-ifs, but reality is, had Germany or Japan seriously tried to invade the US, they would have to pull troops off of some front somewhere. In the case of the Japs, Australia, New Zealand, and England (using Indian troops most likely) could have had a lot of pressure lifted off of them, freeing them up to go on the offensive against the Japs, meaning they would have to pull their invasion force back to defend Japan, putting them back to square one. If the Germans had tried, the Russians would have had the chance to go on the offensive earlier.

Germany was just not equipped for an invasion of the US, no matter what people say they did not have the navy or air force (i.e. the range and numbers), and it was clear from the onset of hostilities their military was geared around staying in Europe/Africa (Afrika if you like). Japan on the other hand, was geared towards taking and defending islands and supplies (oil, steel, etc.) and not a large continent.

[GOPcapitalist]

I know a certain cut and paster on FR that uses this term continually. Scary.

There are lots of scary things about the language that particular individual uses. In the spirit of the "Al Gore or the Unabomber quiz," here are just a few of them

The "Who Said It: Walt or Karl Marx?" Quiz

DIRECTIONS: The following quotations are statements made either by Karl Marx, the father of communism and big government thuggery, or by Walt in his pro-Lincoln postings on Free Republic. Without consulting outside sources, identify who you believe to be the author of each quote by indicating so. Each correct answer will be worth 1 point.. Answers will be displayed shortly after ample time has been allowed for response. Yankees are welcome to give it a try as well.

1. "Part of Lincoln's genius was in knowing what the country would accept, and another part was helping to guide it where it needed to go."

2. "[Abraham Lincoln was] one of the rare men who succeed in becoming great, without ceasing to be good. Such, indeed, was the modesty of this great and good man, that the world only discovered him a hero after he had fallen a martyr."

3. "In accordance with the principle that any further extension of slave territories was to be prohibited by law, the Republicans therefore attacked the rule of the slaveholders at its root. The Republican election victory was...bound to lead to open struggle between North and South."

4. "[Lincoln] was firm "as with a chain of steel" on there being no expansion of slavery from where it already existed. That alone was enough to cause the war, because the slave owners knew that their "futures" in slaves and slave breeding would be compromised unless slavery were allowed to expand."

5. "This geographical barrier [containing slavery] was thrown down in 1854 by the so-called Kansas-Nebraska Bill...[which] placed slavery and freedom on the same footing, commanded the Union government to treat them both with equal indifference"

6. " Lincoln was alarmed by the Kansas-Nebraska Act into becoming more politically active -- because he had a personal abhorance of slavery...he had a solution to at least begin the ending of slavery. And that is what the secessionists found so repugnant."

7. "Lincoln was a very pracical man. He did discover a way to begin to end slavery in the United States. If slavery were confined to areas in which it already existed, it would die"

8. "The whole movement was...based, as one sees, on the slave question. Not in the sense of whether the slaves within the existing slave states should be emancipated outright or not, but whether the twenty million free men of the North should submit any longer to an oligarchy of...slaveholders; whether the vast territories of the republic should be nurseries for free states or for slavery...whether the national policy of the Union should take armed spreading of slavery in Mexico, Central and South America as its device."

9. "[Lincoln] knew that if slavery was limited to areas where it was currently legal, it would die. The slave holders knew it too. That is why slave holders were continually trying to expand territory favorable to gang-labor slavery. That was why the Mexican War was fought and that is why the federal government tried to buy Cuba and that is why slave holders sent expeditions to disrupt Nicaraugua and other Central American locations."

10. "Lincoln bent over backwards to avoid war in his first inaugural. But Jeffeson Davis couldn't allow secession fever to cool. So he fired on Fort Sumter."

11. "It is above all to be remembered that the war did not originate with the North, but with the South...For months [the North] had quietly looked on while the secessionists appropriated the Union's forts, arsenals, shipyards, customs houses, pay offices, ships and supplies of arms, insulted its flag and took prisoner bodies of its troops. Finally the secessionists resolved to force the Union government out of its passive attitude by a blatant act of war, and solely for this reason proceeded to the bombardment of Fort Sumter near Charleston."

12. "[F]rom 1846 to 1861 a free trade system prevailed...Representative Morrill carried his protectionist tariff through Congress only in 1861, after the rebellion had already broken out. Secession, therefore, did not take place because the Morrill tariff had gone through Congress"

13. "[We are fortunate] that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln...to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world."

14. "Lincoln's words show what a great and good man he was, and his actions show [his critics] for a fool or poltroon."

BONUS QUESTION:

Identify the author of this quote denying the sovereignty of the states and advocating the union just like Lincoln did. It could be Walt. It could be Marx. Or it could be somebody else. Take a guess!

"[In America] it is impossible to speak of original sovereignty in regard to the majority of the states. Many of them were not included in the federal complex until long after it had been established. The states that make up the American Union are mostly in the nature of territories, more or less, formed for technical administrative purposes, their boundaries having in many cases been fixed in the mapping office. Originally these states did not and could not possess sovereign rights of their own. Because it was the Union that created most of the so-called states."

Scroll down for answers
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ANSWERS:
1. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/703308/posts?page=2#2
2. Karl Marx, Address of the International Working Men's Association to President Johnson, 1865
3. Karl Marx, On the North American Civil War, October 20, 1861
4. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/700651/posts?page=88#88
5. Karl Marx, On the North American Civil War, October 20, 1861
6. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/688238/posts?page=62#62
7. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/688238/posts?page=42#42
8. Karl Marx, On the North American Civil War, October 20, 1861
9. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/688238/posts?page=42#42
10. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/662922/posts?page=85#85
11. Karl Marx, On the North American Civil War, October 20, 1861
12. Karl Marx, On the North American Civil War, October 20, 1861
13. Karl Marx, letter to Abraham Lincoln congratulating him on reelection as President of the United States, January 28, 1865
14. Walt, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/664750/posts?page=51#51

BONUS: Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf volume II, 1926

[stainlessbanner]

You forgot one:

I put baloney in my shoes, and then I -feel- funny.
Walt

Source

[GOPcapitalist]

I put baloney in my shoes, and then I -feel- funny. Walt

I have no doubt that he does!

[Robert A Cook PE]

More likely, more important a question (for the true survival of England in WWII was in question) ...........

... What would have happened if Hitler HAD NOT declared war on the US in WWII?

1. He had no reason to declare war - Japan was the aggressor against the US at the time, and Germany had no valid economic or political reason to start a war.

2. Roosevelt faced huge opposition to fighting Germany, but after Pearl Harbor, all attention was against Japan.

3. Up to that point, Germany was even with, or even slightly ahead of the UK in all areas where they had fought......Why bring in the US against him?

[Redleg Duke]

That is an excellent point. My late Grandfather worked on the Dawson Pipeline of the ALCAN Highway and he told me it was a desolate and difficult line. Had they conquered Alaska, it would have been the mid to late fifties before they made it down to the Dakotas.