He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 15, 2003 | Mary Mitchell

[george wythe]

What does the Bible say about sex outside marriage?

[jethropalerobber]

...he's not going to be controlled by his groin...

is a celibate man any less "controlled by his groin" is choosing a mate than a promiscuous one?

as i alluded to in another post, i'm not sure this is the case. it would seem to take a deep love to propel someone into a life long committment when they are already 'getting the milk for free'. the problem i see is that too many people will just choose to stay single for their whole life.

i don't think marriage was invented to make people sexually moral. it was created to make them responsible for their sexual actions.

[winodog]

I commend you and others.
One problem you will have is feminism has given women the right to drink and screw like men.
Now when you have been a perfect gentlemen and have not tried to get into a womans pants by the third date there is something wrong with you.
Women will not admit it because they dont want you to think they have no morals but the truth is they think you cant get it up or you have some other problem and they abandon you.
Theres no easy way around it. I have dated a few times and have heard from the dates friends that they suspect something is wrong because I wont sleep with a slut and I surely wont spend the rest of my life with one.
Thats what our society has become.
Women use to keep their legs closed till a man promised marriage. Now if you have nots crewed her by the third date there is something wrong with you and from reading all the replies I am deeply saddended that "conservatives" here at FR feel the same way.

[jethropalerobber]

...he's not going to be controlled by his groin...

is a celibate man any less "controlled by his groin" is choosing a mate than a promiscuous one?

as i alluded to in another post, i'm not sure this is the case. it would seem to take a deep love to propel someone into a life long committment when they are already 'getting the milk for free'. the problem i see is that too many people will just choose to stay single for their whole life.

i don't think marriage was invented to make people sexually moral. it was created to make them responsible for their sexual actions.

[supercat]

What does the Bible say about sex outside marriage?

Well, the Mosaic Law in the Old Testament says a few things [in no particular order]:

• If the daughter of a priest becomes a harlot, she shall be put to death.
• If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both shall be put to death.
• If a man or woman has sexual relations with an animal of either sex, the person and animal shall both be put to death.
• If a married woman has sexual relations with a man other than her husband, she and the man shall be put to death.
• If a man has sex with a virgin to whom he is not married, he shall be compelled to marry her unless her father refuses; even then he shall be compelled to pay the bride-price.
• If a bride's hymen is intact on her wedding night, her pre-marital virtue is to be considered beyond question.

Note that Mosaic law does not forbid prostitution, polygyny, sexual relations between a man and women other than his wife (with the caveat that if such women are virgins he may have to marry them too), or sexual relations between women.

The New Testament has a somewhat narrower sexual moral compass than the Old, but it doesn't have absolute prohibitions in the same way that the Old one did. Certainly it is clear in both the Old and New Testament that the preferred sexual union is between a husband and wife; there are proverbs that make clear all others are foolish. As such, it's quite clear that non-marital sexual relations were discouraged, even though not prohibited.

[george wythe]

What is your take on I Corinthians 6:9,10:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

¹⁰ Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[jethropalerobber]

If a man has sex with a virgin to whom he is not married, he shall be compelled to marry her unless her father refuses; even then he shall be compelled to pay the bride-price.

this is a good example of what i was saying in 462 (and 464 - sorry for the double post).

i.e. society's main and best interest in this arena is in seeing that people take responsibility for their sexual actions.

[LJPenney]

I would think that you would respect this man for standing up for his convictions, even if you disagree.

Personally, I am a 17 year old female, virgin. Staying a virgin is one of the hardest things to do these days, but I am convinced that my relatioinship with my future husband will be even deeper if we have only had sex with each other.

Now I am not naive, or a "good girl"--I could have sex if I wanted. However, I don't becasue I think that the consequences far outweigh the rewards.

I have lots of guy friends who have made the same commitment to purity. And believe me they are not gay, sissy, obese, or missing linbs--they're ALL male,(and some of them are really good-looking) but they are still waiting for their wedding night.

I know how hard it is for guys to stay virgins (I have 3 brothers) and that is why I respect guys that have the self-control to wait for something that is so much better. THOSE guys will make the best husbands.

~L

[Kuksool]

{Washington, a state-certified HIV/AIDS counselor, regularly speaks out about abstinence. He says he does so because it is the best alternative, particularly for African-American couples.....He has a special concern for the destructiveness that has been wrought in black communities by sexual immorality.}

Kudos to Darren Washington! He is a terrific role model for not only the black community, but for all Americans.

[supercat]

What is your take on I Corinthians 6:9,10:

Not being familiar with first-century linguistic usage, it's not entirely clear what is meant.

Certainly, one main message of the Gospels is that repentant sinners who seek Christ can receive salvation. Indeed, since all are sinners, the only way to salvation is through Christ.

I therefore do not take Paul's words in Corinthians to mean that nobody who has ever fornicated can enter the Kingdom of God, nor anybody who has ever gotten drunk, etc.

One difficulty with terms like "drunkard" or "fornicator" is that they refer to quantitative concepts qualitatively, without clarification. As such, it can be unclear whether the terms are meant narrowly or widely.

To understand what I mean, consider other verb-derived nouns like "writer". Would you call anyone who has ever written anything, anywhere, a writer? Or would you only use the term to refer to a small subset of such people?

Without being familiar with first-century linguistic usage, I can't really say with certainty what Paul meant. Certainly the term would probably include people who engage in wild orgies nightly with half a dozen partners. But would it include someone who had sexual relations with a woman he ended up marrying?

For my own actions, I try to stay within the straight and narrow (adopting fairly broad definitions of those terms). On the other hand, I cannot say with certitude that broad definitions are correct.

[supercat]

i don't think marriage was invented to make people sexually moral. it was created to make them responsible for their sexual actions.

I'd say the purpose is much more specific: to protect the right of all people--other than those who by their own actions forfeit the right--to know who their offspring are.

Of course, women don't need to have that right protected--biologically a woman who's pregnant can pretty well guess the child is hers.

Men, however, have no such inherent biological assurance. By requiring that their wives be virgins when they wed, and that they have sex with no one else, husbands can get the assurance from society that biology alone would not provide.

Note, btw, that the focus of marriage on protecting the right to know one's offspring is why female virginity is prized and adultery (for a married woman to sleep with a man not her husband) is not tolerated; it's also why polygyny is acceptable but polyandry is not, and why fornication--even by married males--is not forbidden but is discouraged (a man who sleeps around may find children emerging who grow up to claim a share of his inheritance; the unwise action thus produces its own punishment).

[Paulus Invictus]

Since you are LOL, you must have a direct line to past history trhat says Jesus did not marry. If so, let us know where to find the scripture so we can LOL too.

[Mike-o-Matic]

"Sex can wait, masturbate!"

[JoeSchem]

Hmmm. I'm not celibate and I also have no sexual disease, illegitimacy, etc.

I'll bet your whole family is proud.

[laredo44]

I'll bet your whole family is proud.

Your holier-than-thou attitude must endear you to nearly everyone.

[Ciexyz]

I'm not touchin' this thread with a ten foot pole.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Lol, I busted my ass for someone who didn't deserve it. I wouldn't say I sucked at marriage because my mother trained me for it. It sucked.

If you have money or property, especially with children, getting remarried can be like playing blind man's bluff in a mine field.

You never know, someday you might meet a nice guy someday ;-)

[George W. Bush]

only if your government is socialist, comrade.

But our government is socialist. << which is only to say that we ought not use socialism to justify our moralism. >>

Or at least not use socialism to subsidize our immorality.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I agree. All we truly have is our honor and our word. If I was in a committed relationship and found out that my S.O. was unfaithful, my trust would be just as destroyed as if I were married.

It's also almost impossible to rebuild that trust. Sometimes you can be very careful and not know what you're getting into. Sometimes people are darn clever about misrepresenting themselves. These days you never know...

[TheSpottedOwl]

She's never held any elected office. Very few presidents have ever been elected president without previously holding an elective office. All the ones I can think of off the top of my head were generals like Washington, Jackson, Harrison, Grant, and Eisenhower.

I like Condi Rice, and I appreciate the fact that she has other interests besides politics. Can you imagine a debate between her and Hill?