[betty boop]

I know you meant "men" but the spelling goes to ill motive.

Oooooopppps! Sorry, I goofed. :^)

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOLOL! It was just such an appropriate term since one wanted to debunk special creation and the other wanted to justify atheism. Both were seeking to tear down faith which is ill motive, maliciousness in legalese, or meanness. Just my two cents...

[Phaedrus]

Thanks for the Grandpierre link. I'll have a look.

FWIW I do think it's possible albeit rare for human beings to lay aside their prejudices and deal with reality as it is. We are, I think, in the end stages of a great clash in worldviews with the mechanistic losing. I think our principal problem is myopia; i.e. it's hard to know reality from the perspective of a whirling speck of dust in a vast cosmos and as a conscious "animal" thereon. I won't belabor the point beyond saying that our best scientific explanations are vastly deficient as to qualia and that I believe we will ultimately have to "go there" if we are to move forward in our understanding of reality. The physicists have been very helpful but have turned a blind or too timid eye toward the implications of their findings. As I said to bb privately, I don't see how any physicist with a modicum of understanding could be an atheist. As my very close friend, Owen Fairfield, once crudely put it: "Quantity is just another quality".