Which Billy did Pat Garrett get?

NYT via IHT ^ | Michael Janofsky

[Shooter 2.5]

Someone was always bragging that they were a famous outlaw. I remember an article that someone claimed to be Frank James. I believe there was also a lame attempt to say that Jesse James wasn't killed at the time of the Ford shooting.

Just to add a little history tidbit, Billy wasn't left handed.

[Ligeia]

Sheriff Pat Garrett's a liar, is that it, NYT? Don't be hard on Jayson Blair and Howell Raines; everybody does it. Isn't that the desired reaction to this story?

[Clinging Bitterly]

>> The New York Times

Well Sir G, the source has to count for something.

But when I was growing up, there was an old timer in my neighborhood in Lane County Oregon who, in his final days, confessed to being Billy the Kid. I think he was over 100 years old, and this was probably around 1970.

I think there were probably others who made such confessions during that time too. I guess we'll never know for sure.

Dave in Eugene

[The Hon. Galahad Threepwood]

I read somewhere that "Brushy Bill" was far too young to have been Billy the Kid.

[45Auto]

Just to add a little history tidbit, Billy wasn't left handed

If this is an authentic photo, I'd say you're right!

[joesnuffy]

NYTimes is that stil around?

[RightWhale]

a lawman on a par with Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson, even Matt Dillon.

Matt Dillon?

[deport]

They argue about his birthdate.....

Answer: Brushy claimed he was born in 1859, so that his birthdate would match up with Billy's, but there is evidence to suggest that he was actually born in December of 1868. This is the date that appeared on his original headstone. Brushy's niece Mrs. Geneva Pittmon however claimed in a letter to Billy the Kid Outlaw Gang founder Joe Bowlin that Brushy was born on August 26, 1879 and that she had the family Bible record to prove it. If that is correct, then Brushy Bill Roberts was only two years old when Billy the Kid was killed in 1881!

Click above links to see headstones

[Phsstpok]

Just to add a little history tidbit, Billy wasn't left handed.

As I understand it the "left handed gun" came from a reverse print of a photo of Billy with his favorite rifle in his arms and pistol on his left hip, thus he "must have been" left handed. However, examining the rifle shows that the breech is mirror imaged, something never produced by that gun maker (winchester?) prooving that the picture is flipped.

My favorite tidbit surrounding the Billy the Kid / Lincoln County Wars is the true source of fame of the governor mentioned in the story, Lew Wallace. He was world famous as the author of the single most successful book in the US in the 1800s: Ben Hur. He wrote most of it while governor, living in Santa Fe. General Lew Wallace was also a civil war hero (he held off the advancing rebel troops with volunteer militia when they could have captured Washington and ended the war) as well as one of the judges at the trial of the Lincoln Assassination conspirators. After leaving New Mexico he went on to be ambassador to the Ottoman Empire and prooved very influential in affairs at the end of the century in that part of the world. Fascinating gent. People just lived bigger lives, I guess.

[Shooter 2.5]

That's the only photograph of Billy. It's normally shown in reverse as the original photograph was sold. I have Pat Garrett's book next to me and the back page shows that photograph, again, in reverse.

The proof is the loading gate on the Winchester. A correct view will show the gate on the right side.

I'm sure you know that, I'm writing for the lurkers.

Garrett's book says that Maxwell was laying down on the bed when Billy walked in. Maxwell whispered, "That's him", and Garrett fired two shots. Garrett had recognized Billy's voice when he said "Quine es?" [Who's that?]. They thought Billy had fired after the first shot but they couldn't find that bullet hole in the bedroom. Billy's Thunder .41 had a spent cartridge under the hammer and Garrett said that proved nothing since it was a common safety practice. Garrett's first shot hit Billy just above the heart. The second missed.

[Free ThinkerNY]

Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who has offered state aid for the investigation and a possible pardon that an earlier New Mexico governor had once promised to the Kid for a murder he committed.

Democrats seem to love pardoning criminals. It makes them feel good to be bad.

[Servant of the Nine]

>> The New York Times
Well Sir G, the source has to count for something.

As I remember Pat Garrett was a Republican.

It seems to me that half the old men of dubious ancestry in the Southwest in the 30s claimed to really be some famous outlaw or another. There were at least 6 who claimed to be Butch Cassidy. Acording to his sister, one of them actually was.

So9

[Shooter 2.5]

I'm just a slow typer. You're correct about the Rifle and the left handed tidbit.

The heroes of the Civil War were a different breed. Spencer, the famous carbine inventor lived long enough to design helicopters.

[19th LA Inf]

After finding a couple of old family tintype photos in my attic, I read up on tintypes. The source pointed out that original tintypes are always mirror images of the subjects, since the image (positive) is viewed directly from the front surface instead of being printed through a negative. This article specifically mentioned the case of Billy the Kid, who was said (mistakenly) to be left handed because of tintype evidence. I don't know if your photo was the one they referred to or not; possibly it's been reverse copied from an original tintype. It does appear that he slung his sixgun on the starboard side in that one.

[45Auto]

The governor of New Mexico Territory at the time was Lew Wallace:

Governor of The New Mexico Territory 1878 - 1881

In September 1878 Gen. Wallace was appointed Governor of the New Mexico Territory. Described by some as thanks for his support for President Hayes, it was not a "favor." His job was to clean up the "Lincoln County Wars."

On November 14 he issued an Amnesty Proclamation, a pardon for all misdemeanors and crimes committed in Lincoln County from Feb. 1 until Nov. 13, 1878. It excluded those indicted or undergoing punishment for crimes.

A secret meeting with William Bonney (a.k.a. Billy the Kid) led to an arrest (actually protective custody) while Billy testified against those involved in the killing of Huston Chapman.

Billy would be granted amnesty in return for his testimony, but he was still supposed to stand trial for previous crimes. He did testify but chose to then escape from jail and return to a life of crime. Gen. Wallace refused to grant his amnesty.

In December of 1880 Billy the Kid was arrested and charged with murdering three men. At his trial in 1881 he was exonerated of two of those killings, but convicted of one. He was sentenced to hang, and his official death warrant is in Gen. Wallace’s handwriting. However, as Billy was prone to do, he escaped from jail to be ultimately shot down by Sheriff Pat Garrett in July of 1881.

In the spring of 1879 the Apache chief Victorio left the reservation and started raiding. Gen. Wallace said of Victorio that he "was an enemy not to be despised." Among the things New Mexico must surely appreciate about Lew’s time as Governor is his salvaging of the archives of the territory.

[KneelBeforeZod]

Unsolved Mysteries also had a story on this, showed the pro and con evidence...

My guess is that Brushy Bill is just some old eccentric.

Buncha info against Brushy being billy the kid:

[45Auto]

Lew Wallace in his younger days

[TERMINATTOR]

BongSmoke?

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for the history lesson. I sat down one summer and tried to read about the Lincoln County Wars and couldn't figure out who was fighting who. It was a mess with at least four sides going at once. There was the big ranchers, the small ranchers, and the two stores in town trying to supply whoever they supported. Add the government, the local militia and the self appointed vigilantes and I still haven't figure out who was in the right. Probably no one.