Patient Hospitalized For Possible SARS Exposure Dies; Tests Come Back Negative

WRAL Raleigh, North Carolina ^ | 2003-06-13 | Reporter: Stephanie Hawco, OnLine Producers: Michelle Singer and Kamal Wallace

[Betty Jo]

He was an estimator,energy consultant.Did he go to ANY other place as part of his work?

If he had a heart problem, and was coughing for weeks,would there be an existing medical record of these past weeks?

What or who was his medical provider?

Did he perhaps infect the SARS man who went to Canada?

Since everyting changes every day, if not every hour,I am very afraid huge mistakes are being made.

I'm just getting on the puter now as my power was off for hours.

If my comments are easily answerable,forgive me.

I think Niman is onto something.

[Future Useless Eater]

Interesting - once again we have a negative correlation between fever intensity and mortality. If you get this, GET YOUR TEMPERATURE UP! (Few older patients showed a fever)

VERY good point! And another suggestion to the rest of you...

If you develop a fever while this bug is around, NEVER take ANY FEVER REDUCER in order to continue your normal schedule,
(even that daily aspirin).

THAT could prove fatal.

[Betty Jo]

I'm talking aout his medical record before June 9 and his coughing before that.

[jacquej]

I know Niman is on to this... Have you read all his posts over there? It would be a good idea to bookmark the SARS board over there, and follow what he has to say.

I haven't done much checking on the rest of the board, but got the impression that it isn't compatible with my view of things. But, the SARS part has been goos so far.

We must watch NC between June 16 and the end of the month, right?

[jacquej]

lol, goos = good

anyone know how to get one's temp up if feeling ill? Hot bath? Raise the room temp? Hot teas?

Not that I am planning on getting it, you know...

[jacquej]

just found this about the "first SARS case in NY State, but I know this isn't true. I think there was a suspect case in either Syracuse or Schenectedy, but can't remember the details, and I am thinking there was a suspicios in Buffalo... but thought some of you might have a better memory than I do...

Trying to weed the garden, and spray soapy water on the tomatoes to get rid of those nasty little flea beetles. Run in every once in awhile to check on the board and get a drink. It is humid and buggy out there!

But, at least it isn't raining!

[jacquej]

oops, I obviously do not multi-task very well, here is the link

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/ny-hssars0613,0,2771914.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left

[Betty Jo]

Hot date?

[Betty Jo]

I wonder if all the dead victims of SARS were told not to worry,just as they were going bye-bye?

[steve86]

Just my two cents on the obfuscation -- It's like the authorities go all out to create doubt in the mind of the public that the correct diagnosis is SARS. Almost like Geragos and the Laci case (sorry for bringing that up).

[Prince Charles]

Dr. Niman comments further on that same thread:

I think that WHO wanted the linkage data, but it also shows the weakness of the case definition as well as the potential to under-report by excluding SARS cases because of no known contact.

The initial media report sounded like none of the initial links to SARS II were recorded as SARS.  This led to many unknown cases evolving from the unreported links.  I suspect the number of infected persons linked to more unreported cases is quite large, which is why Winnipeg was getting 20% PCR positives in patients that failed to meet the case definition (but teh patients had symptoms).

Thus, it seems that the data were there, but instead of looking harder, the results were called "weird" and used to make the initial claim that SARS CoV didn't cause SARS.

I think that the unreported links will make WHO look harder at the links to the unreported cases and require extensive follow-up along with antibody tests (it is too late to follow-up with PCR tests because the virus has been cleared by now by the infected patients).

I believe that the virus has spread very far and wide in the Toronto area, setting the stage for a significant happening in the Fall.



If Reed died of SARS, I suspect the Canadian repercussions will be severe.  The first travel ban came right after the Pennsylvania traveler tested positive for SARS antibody (after returning from the religious retreat in Toronto), and now Toronto's downgrade follows an antibody positive result on another case exported from Toronto.

If Reed did become infected by the NC index case, the failure of Toronto to notify him of his Toronto exposure will loom large.

Moreover, I have said for sometime that the US was one super spreader away from a major media event, and I suspect that the next couple of weeks will test that hypothesis.

The US health care system certainly has a heads up in NC, and since the index case was mild, this may not evolve into a super spreader situation.  However, there clearly was a pneumonia death in a co-worker of the NC index case and  I think the evidence strongly points to the NC index case as the source. 

The failure to follow-up (which is why Toronto was downgraded to C) and it has already been noted by WHO (and just about anyone else paying attention).

[Prince Charles]

One additional late quote from Dr. Niman:

"Of note, Dr Frank Plummer of the Canadian National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg is quoted in a NY Times article today: "Dr Plummer's team in Winnipeg has tested about 3000 specimens from 95 probable and 90 suspect cases in Canada and Asia. His team identified the SARS virus in about 40 per cent of the probable cases and 35 per cent of the suspect cases. He said he was surprised to find the virus in about 20 per cent of an additional 250 people who were not suspected of having SARS but who were tested because they had come to Canada from affected areas in Asia or who had mild symptoms not thought to be SARS. Although the 250 were not randomly chosen as scientific controls, Dr Plummer said he was still surprised at the number who tested positive."

The finding of 20% positives in 250 people in Canada with mild symptoms should have set off major alarm bells (50 people in April with the virus but with symptoms too mild to be called suspect or probable SARS is clearly something to follow, not dismiss).  Instead the results were called "weird" and cited as evidence for questioning the role of the SARS CoV.

In late April the role of the SARS CoV in the etiology of SARS was firmly established, and the 20% positive PCR rate was solid evidence that the case definition was causing many of those infected with the SARS CoV to be missed. 

It is still not clear to me as to whether the contacts of the SARS CoV positives were ever identified or tested.

[txhurl]

He said he was surprised to find the virus in about 20 per cent of an additional 250 people who were not suspected of having SARS but who were tested because they had come to Canada from affected areas in Asia or who had mild symptoms not thought to be SARS.

So let's do the math here.... 50 people not suspected of carrying SARS are in the meantime contacting how many people over a weeks' time? Say, 150 per person?

7500 people they may have come into contact with - if 20% of these are infected, that's .... 1500 people?

Is my math right here? Do I have SARS and not know it?

[aristeides]

U.S. man believed to have contracted SARS in Toronto freed from quarantine . The NC index patient is out of quarantine.

[aristeides]

Possible First Transmission Of SARS in NY. Health care worker, who was exposed to patient in Nassau County, NY. Her symptoms are not serious. But, as we know from the NC situation, that does not mean that she may not have caused a more serious case in someone else.

[aristeides]

SARS cure unlikely 'soon'.

[BagCamAddict]

Even when I get a simple cold or flu, I ALWAYS climb into bed, with lots of covers, and let my body "cook" the germs out of me while I sleep in sweat. Fever is a GOOD thing if it's not excessive... it's the body's natural defense against bad bugs. (It's miserable to be sick anyway, so I try to just sleep through most of it.)

[aristeides]

I take aspirin as a prophylactic against heart disease and stroke. Not to avoid fever. Probably millions of people do the same.

[txhurl]

Time to start randomly testing people? I think it is.

[Betty Jo]

Yep!