[Married] Lutheran minister to become Roman Catholic priest

AP ^ | June 9, 2003

[george wythe]

Much as Martin Luther left the Catholic Church hundreds of years ago because he didn't like the church's direction, a Lutheran minister is becoming a Roman Catholic priest.

The Rev. Leonard Klein, whose last service as pastor of Christ Lutheran Church in York is June 29, says the Evangelical Church in America is moving further and further from orthodoxy. Klein, who follows a traditional view of marriage, said issues such as the blessing of same-sex unions should not even be up for debate

The decision was difficult because he is leaving a congregation that he has been happy to serve for 22 years, he said.

"It's certainly a loss," said the Rev. Beth Schlegel, an associate pastor at Christ Lutheran.

Klein, 57, is to attend St. Mary's Seminary in Baltimore, and is to be ordained after three years.

Klein is married, which will make him an oddity among Roman Catholic priests. The Roman Catholic Church accepts a few married clergymen as priest candidates if they come from a faith tradition close to Catholicism, Klein said. Most are Lutherans and Episcopalians.

[TxPilot]

I personally know two ex-priests that have left the priesthood to marry. One took another job within another parish in the diocese, and the other no longer works for the church.

Ironically, we have a married priest at our parish (ex-Episcopalian), where one of the ex-priests now attends church with his family. Says he is not bitter, but would have liked to remain a priest.

BTW, sure is funny to watch to visitor's jaws drop in mass when he talks about his wife and kids during his homily...

[NYer]

The decision was difficult because he is leaving a congregation that he has been happy to serve for 22 years, he said.

He is in good company with Fr. Richard John Neuhaus. He was ordained into the catholic church by (now deceased) John Cardinal O'Connor. After completing the Rites of Ordination, the cardinal said: "This has to be one of the longest ordinations in the history of the church".

This may well be the 2nd longest

Richard John Neuhaus interviewed

[sinkspur]

Isn't this implicit acknowledgement that celibacy isn't necessary to be a good Catholic priest?

Yes. It's never been necessary, as the Eastern Rites have proved.

[sinkspur]

Ironically, we have a married priest at our parish (ex-Episcopalian), where one of the ex-priests now attends church with his family. Says he is not bitter, but would have liked to remain a priest.

The Church in America would likely be able to increase its numbers by a good 10-15% if some of those married priests were welcomed back, and it's likely that that many would return. There's little doubt that the faithful would welcome them, with open arms.

It's ridiculous that the Church doesn't figure out a way to utilize these men, especially since their education cost the faithful, cumulatively, millions of dollars. Our little diocese lost 20 men between 1976-1990; my entire seminary class, of which 12 were ordained, now counts two priests.

There are dioceses (and you can guess where they are) where these men aren't even allowed to assist in RCIA programs or be lectors at Mass.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

To welcome back to the clerical state a man who was ordained and then subsequently married, or to permit priests to marry, would not be the same as permitting already-married men to enter the priesthood.

The latter has been permitted throughout the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church, though it has been extremely limited in the Roman Church. As we talk about all the time, we permit married men ordination in the Eastern Catholic Churches as a matter of course, and as we are discussing here, we let the occasional married Protestant minister to convert and be ordained in the Roman Catholic Church, as well. The former, to the best of my knowledge, has never been permitted within the Catholic Church. The Church has never permitted already-ordained men, men who are already priests, to marry subsequent to their ordination.

What you are suggesting goes far, far beyond what is noted here.


sitetest

[ex-snook]

I know that you are informed on this matter so a question. What are your thoughts as to why a married minister would want to be a priest but it seems a priest who wants to get married does not want to become a minister? Maybe that's not so. I just don't know.

[Poohbah]

There are dioceses (and you can guess where they are) where these men aren't even allowed to assist in RCIA programs or be lectors at Mass.

That goes far beyond any reasonable aspect of following canon law and is just petty and vindictive.

[Theosis]

2. Sending a hint to heterosexual Catholic men to convert to Protestantism for while and then come back as married miniters to the Catholic Church.

Won't work. One of the conditions for admitting married men to the priesthood in the Latin Church is that they were never baptized or confirmed Catholic prior to their non-Catholic ordination.

[sinkspur]

What you are suggesting goes far, far beyond what is noted here.

Who would have guessed that the Church would have allowed married Anglican, Lutheran, and Methodist converts to be ordained to the priesthood, prior to 1980?

Someone above said that, according to the Virginia Catholic, the Vatican is no longer suspending Eastern Rite priests who are marrying. (I'm trying to find this somewhere). That would be quite a change, don't you think?

Look, we've been around this tree many times. Unlike you, I think the Church is on the verge of using the Anglican dispensation as a model for introducing married men into the priesthood, and making some exceptions for allowing men who left the priesthood to marry to return.

What do you think of this: A man who left the priesthood 20 years ago, married (without benefit of laicization), is divorced by his wife, and is on the verge of being accepted back into the active diocesan priesthood?

It's already happened to two men in Dallas, and it's about to happen to a friend of mine here in Ft. Worth.

These guys lived in invalid marriages, had children, and are now returning to the priesthood, while the guys who did the right thing and got laicized are getting the cold shoulder from the Vatican.

The Church can call whoever it wants to the priesthood, but I have to laugh every time I hear of somebody squeezing through a canonical keyhole (divorced priests and Protestant converts) while lifelong Catholic men, who left the priesthood and made the mistake of getting laicized so that they could stand before God with a clear conscience, are shunted off to pour coffee at RCIA events and told their presence is not wanted in the sanctuary.

[george wythe]

Thanks for your clarification.

I guess the only option for always-been-Catholic men to become married priests is to leave the Church and joint a Protestant denomination.

At the same time, somehow we find Protestant-turned-Catholic married men so appealing that we give them a special exemption to rules that other Catholics have to observe.

[sinkspur]

What are your thoughts as to why a married minister would want to be a priest but it seems a priest who wants to get married does not want to become a minister?

There have been a few priests who have done this, become Episcopalians, but not many.

If a man would leave the True Faith just so he could exercise some form of ministry, he wasn't much of a Catholic to begin with, and likely won't be a very good Episcopalian priest either.

I wouldn't do it, under any circumstances. If you live in a diocese with a sensible bishop, ex-priests can do a lot in various ministries. Our bishop is one of those who thinks ex-priests ought to be welcomed back, but he's also the bishop with the single largest number of married Episcopalian converts in the priesthood in the US (7).

Ordaining married converts barely makes the papers down here.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Neuhaus: "I feel very at home around Catholics. This Church is where the fullness of Christ's truth subsists, and being Catholic is a freeing experience for me. On the negative, I would refer you to the book Why Catholics Can't Sing by Thomas Day. I find the liturgy and music of contemporary Catholicism depressing. But that is something I will have to bear with."

[sinkspur]

I guess the only option for always-been-Catholic men to become married priests is to leave the Church and joint a Protestant denomination.

And compromise your Faith? Once you've sold for IBM, you'll take another job in IBM before you'll sell for Unisys.

At the same time, somehow we find Protestant-turned-Catholic married men so appealing that we give them a special exemption to rules that other Catholics have to observe.

It's a recognition of a call to ministry, and the Church is saying that some Episcopalians, Lutherans, and Methodists possess genuine vocations that ought to be preserved, even though these men are married.

Now, at one time, the Church called some Catholic men to the priesthood, but, because they desired to marry, the Church no longer recognized their vocation.

Makes no sense, does it?

[sinkspur]

BTW, this is a controversy only among the hierarchy and some traditional Catholics.

The vast majority of lay Catholics are comfortable with the idea of married priests, especially in those areas where married priests are already ministering.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

"Who would have guessed that the Church would have allowed married Anglican, Lutheran, and Methodist converts to be ordained to the priesthood, prior to 1980?"

Nothing in the Anglican provision in any way goes against doctrine or Tradition of the Church. It is merely the easing of a discipline found in only one rite of the Catholic Church.

To permit men who are already priests to marry would be unprecedented, as far as I know.

"Someone above said that, according to the Virginia Catholic, the Vatican is no longer suspending Eastern Rite priests who are marrying. (I'm trying to find this somewhere)."

The way I read the post, it seems to have said that the Vatican is no longer suspending married men who are subsequently ordained. If I recall correctly, even Eastern Catholic priests, generally, have not been allowed to have been married, if they are to exercise their ministry in the Western Hemisphere. If the Church is now permitting married Eastern Catholics to be ordained, this is merely permitting in the West what is already permitted in the East.

"That would be quite a change, don't you think?"

It would, if the way you report it were what was happening. But I doubt it very much.

"Look, we've been around this tree many times. Unlike you, I think the Church is on the verge of using the Anglican dispensation as a model for introducing married men into the priesthood, and making some exceptions for allowing men who left the priesthood to marry to return."

Yes, but I keep finding you on threads running around the tree without me! So I have to run after you so that others realize there is another side to this question.

I doubt that the Church is on the verge of generally permitting married men to enter the priesthood in the Roman Church. I'm not expressing my preference, I just really doubt it. I think that Pope John Paul II would sooner canonize Mr. Lefebvre than generally relax this discipline.

But perhaps you are saying that there others waiting in the wings for the next pontificate to do this. Perhaps that's so, but remember, the Holy Spirit gets to do the pickin'.

Even if that's so, and the next pope does away with celibacy as a condition for ordination, I truly doubt the Church will permit already-ordained men to marry. Just really, really, really doubt it.

"What do you think of this: A man who left the priesthood 20 years ago, married (without benefit of laicization), is divorced by his wife, and is on the verge of being accepted back into the active diocesan priesthood?"

The man wasn't married, he was living in sin. Sorry to sound harsh, but sinner though I am, I cannot say otherwise. For a baptized Catholic to enter into a non-Catholic "marriage" is to live in sin.

That the man no longer is living in sin, and reconciles with the Church, is not a bad thing. That he is permitted to return to the priesthood is a judgement way above my paygrade.

It is interesting to note, sinkspur, that even though these men were not married in the eyes of the Church, the Church, nonetheless, barred them from the clerical state. It is only AFTER they abandoned their life of living in sin that they could be readmitted to the clerical state.

"...the guys who did the right thing and got laicized are getting the cold shoulder from the Vatican."

These men aren't in a comparable position. They are still living in their marriages. The men you cite above are no longer living as husbands of wives, sacramental or otherwise. The fact is, if these men, laicized and married in the Church, were to volunteer to forsake their active marital state, they might gain readmittance to the clerical state. That would be comparable to the former cases.

But what the Church will not tolerate, in any of the Catholic Churches, West or East, is for an ordained man to then marry, and participate actively to both the marital and clerical states at the same time.


sitetest

[breakem]

Side story. Our priest in Elk Grove, CA used to greet everyone at the door before and after mass. One Saturday a man and woman approached the door. The man introduced himself as Fr. Peter from the Orthodox Church in South Sacramento. He introduced the woman as his wife. Fr. Leo responded "Well, aren't you the lucky one!"

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Incorrect. It is the failure of some bishops and their accomplices in some seminaries to obey the Vaticans' 1961 ban on ordaining homosexuals to the priesthood.

[sinkspur]

These men aren't in a comparable position. They are still living in their marriages. The men you cite above are no longer living as husbands of wives, sacramental or otherwise. The fact is, if these men, laicized and married in the Church, were to volunteer to forsake their active marital state, they might gain readmittance to the clerical state. That would be comparable to the former cases.

Which they wouldn't do, and shouldn't do, since they're watching married converts waltz into the priesthood and enjoy the full fruits of both.

Don't be surprised, if the African Arinze is elected Pope, that he will extend the Anglican dispensation further.

But what the Church will not tolerate, in any of the Catholic Churches, West or East, is for an ordained man to then marry, and participate actively to both the marital and clerical states at the same time.

Actually, it will. The permanent diaconate is one state of Holy Orders. Why does the Anglican dispensation not direct these converts into the permanent diaconate? That would be more in keeping with former and current practice.

We'll never agree about this, but I enjoy the dialogue anyway.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

(which is only founded on tradition, not holy writ)

You are woefully ignorant of the discipline of celibacy and it's Scriptural foundation.