Bush Praised Pope Despite War Criticism ["one of the greatest moral leaders of our time"]

Newsmax ^ | 6-8-2003 | Mike Reilly

[Notwithstanding]

NewsMax.com's religion editor Fr. Mike Reilly notes that relations between President Bush and Pope John Paul II remain warm despite their disagreement over the war in Iraq.

While Pope John Paul II joined the chorus of European critics urging President Bush not to make war on Iraq, Bush had nothing but praise for the Pope during his recent visit to Poland.

Zenit news reported that on the eve of Secretary of State Colin Powell's meeting with the Pope, President Bush told cheering crowds that, "At Wawel Cathedral in 1978, a Polish cardinal began his journey to a conclave in Rome, and entered history as Pope John Paul II -- one of the greatest moral leaders of our time."

"A young seminarian, Karol Wojtyla, saw the swastika flag flying over the ramparts of Wawel Castle," Bush said. "He shared the suffering of his people and was put into forced labor. From this priest's experience and faith came a vision: that every person must be treated with dignity, because every person is known and loved by God."

Meanwhile, Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski took the opportunity to weigh in on the debate over the European Constitution.

While the Constitution acknowledges the contributions of the Greeks and the Romans, the framers ignore the influence of Christianity.

"I am an atheist and everybody knows it," he the London Telegraph this week. "But there are no excuses for making references to ancient Greece and Rome, and the Enlightenment, without making references to the Christian values which are so important to the development of Europe."

[Destro]

The Vatican's role in the fall of the Eastern Bloc has been greatly exaggerated.

[Cicero]

Some of the Cardinals in the Vatican behaved irresponsibly, but the Pope was actually pretty low key, merely urging that all avenues for peace should be pursued--which they were.

To compare the Pope with European leaders like Chirac and Schroeder is ridiculous. He did not go around behind Bush's back making trouble or provide weapons and intelligence to Saddam. I agree that some Catholic prelates went over the line.

[AmishDude]

While the Constitution acknowledges the contributions of the Greeks and the Romans, the framers ignore the influence of Christianity.

"I am an atheist and everybody knows it," he the London Telegraph this week. "But there are no excuses for making references to ancient Greece and Rome, and the Enlightenment, without making references to the Christian values which are so important to the development of Europe."

What kind of dumb constitution is this, anyway? Wake up, Europe. The US has had a pretty darned good Constitution for over 200 years now and is currently the 800 pound gorilla on the world stage. Think: emulation.

[Notwithstanding]

Your role in writing history is, thankfully, nil.

[AmishDude]

Some of the Cardinals in the Vatican behaved irresponsibly, but the Pope was actually pretty low key, merely urging that all avenues for peace should be pursued--which they were.

Well said. What gets underreported is how gracious Bush actually is. For example, Chirac's shenanigans -- pre-war and post-war and even at Evian -- have been nothing short of juvenile and Bush's response is to smile and hold out his hand in friendship.

[Destro]

The truth is the truth---cheap oil made the USSR unable to buy Eastern European manufacturing goods causing the Eastern Block to break apart. The vatican had no role in the break up other than a superficial one in Poland.

[Notwithstanding]

"What has happened in Eastern Europe in recent years would not have been possible without the presence of this Pope, without the great role even political that he has played on the world scene" - Mikhail Gorbachev quoted in La Stampa, March 3, 1992

[Chi-townChief]

As a bad Catholic, I respectfully think JP totally blew it regarding Iraq.

[Conservative til I die]

Sour grapes from an Eastern Orthodox with an agenda.

[bushfamfan]

Kwasniewski's an atheist? Wasn't he a communist too?

[Pyro7480]

Yeah, he was a communist, and he is an atheist. However, he is smart enough to realize the huge impact the Catholic faith has on the Polish people in general.

[Pyro7480]

See, I don't completely get many in the Eastern Orthodox church still holding grudges against the Catholic church. I understand the historical anamosity, but I mean how long are you going to hold on to grudges from centuries ago?

[B Knotts]

Same here. I don't get it. I think it's kind of a ethnic European thing.

[Gal.5:1]

I suspect Europe does not want to think 'emulation', with regards to the world's superpower, the USA, but perhaps 'replacement'.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

But I thought you had said earlier on FR that the Pope didn't criticize Bush's decision to go to into Iraq. what happened? Did they find something that was hidden?

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Please see if you can find a direct link to the quote you posted. I am unable to find it. FYI Gorbachev left the Soviet Union in 1991, prior to his knowledge of the Popes work there. Thanks. In the meantime:

The war against Iraq as threatening the ''fate of humanity".... "When war, as in these days in Iraq, threatens the fate of humanity, it is ever more urgent to proclaim, with a strong and decisive voice, that only peace is the road to follow to construct a more just and united society.'' ... ''Violence and arms can never resolve the problems of men.'' ... ''a gift of God and a humble and constant achievement by men.''
-- Pope John Paul II, Mach 23, 2003

''The move defies the existence of the United Nations and international laws. The U.S. stance...means it regards other nations as subject countries or states.'' U.S. President George W. Bush's policy ''is far from real world leadership,'' Gorbachev said. ''It's really too bad. What has become of the world? I'm afraid the U.N. system has collapsed. We have to give our earnest consideration to the problem.'' ''The United States seems to believe this military action shows its world leadership. But that is its misconception. Real world leadership is to take initiatives in promoting the Kyoto Protocol, nuclear disarmament, and arms control, and solving environmental issues''
-- Former Soviet President Mikhail, Third World Water Forum, Japan, March 20, 2003

[Notwithstanding]

This is an excerpt from the PBS's leftist Frontline - it is the conclusion of a piece that (lest you think it overstates his role) very thoroughly points out that some people make false claims about what Pope John Paul II:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/communism/

---

From the first day of his election, John Paul II's pontificate raised concern in Central Committee headquarters. The Canadian reporter, Eric Margolis, described it this way: "I was the first Western journalist inside the KGB headquarters in 1990. The generals told me that the Vatican and the Pope above all was regarded as their number one, most dangerous enemy in the world." Soon enough, people of all sorts--world leaders, clandestine dissidents and ordinary Catholics--sensed the Communists were impotent before the Polish Pope. In 1979, when John Paul II's plane landed at Okecie Airport, church bells ran throughout the country. He criss-crossed his beloved Poland, deluged by adoring crowds. He preached thirty-two sermons in nine days. Bogdan Szajkowski said it was, "A psychological earthquake, an opportunity for mass political catharsis..." The Poles who turned out by the millions looked around and saw they were not alone. They were a powerful multitude. The Pope spoke of human dignity, the right to religious freedom and a revolution of the spirit--not insurrection. The people listened. As George Wiegel observed, "It was a lesson in dignity, a national plebiscite, Poland's second baptism."

Our images of revolution are filled with blood-stained pictures: French aristocrats lined up against the Bastille wall; the Tsar's family executed in a cellar under cover of night; Mao's victims floating down the Yellow River. The romantic collective Polish psyche brims with images of violent, quixotic rebellions. They range from the futile uprisings of the 19th century to the calvary charging German tanks on horseback at the beginning of World War II. But the revolution launched by John Paul's return to Poland is one that conjures roads lined with weeping pilgrims, meadows of peaceful souls singing hymns, and most of all, of people swaying forward as one--reaching for the extraordinary man in white as he is borne through their midst. "What is the greatest, most unexpected event of the 20th century?" James Carroll asked in his interview with us. "Isn't it that the Soviet Empire was brought down non-violently? Isn't John Paul II's story part of it?"

Again and again, people told us that it was. John Paul II's 1979 trip was the fulcrum of revolution which led to the collapse of Communism. Timothy Garton Ash put it this way, "Without the Pope, no Solidarity. Without Solidarity, no Gorbachev. Without Gorbachev, no fall of Communism." (In fact, Gorbachev himself gave the Kremlin's long-term enemy this due, "It would have been impossible without the Pope.") It was not just the Pope's hagiographers who told us that his first pilgrimage was the turning point. Skeptics who felt Wojtyla was never a part of the resistance said everything changed as John Paul II brought his message across country to the Poles. And revolutionaries, jealous of their own, also look to the trip as the beginning of the end of Soviet rule.

It took time; it took the Pope's support from Rome--some of it financial; it took several more trips in 1983 and 1987. But the flame was lit. It would smolder and flicker before it burned from one end of Poland to the other. Millions of people spread the revolution, but it began with the Pope's trip home in 1979. As General Jaruzelski said, "That was the detonator."

[Notwithstanding]

I have posted an article from Newsmax that purports to summarize the views expressed by Bush.

I have not posted anything on this thread about criticism by the pope.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

"On this thread". No kidding. Was that what I posted?