Bush Praised Pope Despite War Criticism ["one of the greatest moral leaders of our time"]

Newsmax ^ | 6-8-2003 | Mike Reilly

[Notwithstanding]

NewsMax.com's religion editor Fr. Mike Reilly notes that relations between President Bush and Pope John Paul II remain warm despite their disagreement over the war in Iraq.

While Pope John Paul II joined the chorus of European critics urging President Bush not to make war on Iraq, Bush had nothing but praise for the Pope during his recent visit to Poland.

Zenit news reported that on the eve of Secretary of State Colin Powell's meeting with the Pope, President Bush told cheering crowds that, "At Wawel Cathedral in 1978, a Polish cardinal began his journey to a conclave in Rome, and entered history as Pope John Paul II -- one of the greatest moral leaders of our time."

"A young seminarian, Karol Wojtyla, saw the swastika flag flying over the ramparts of Wawel Castle," Bush said. "He shared the suffering of his people and was put into forced labor. From this priest's experience and faith came a vision: that every person must be treated with dignity, because every person is known and loved by God."

Meanwhile, Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski took the opportunity to weigh in on the debate over the European Constitution.

While the Constitution acknowledges the contributions of the Greeks and the Romans, the framers ignore the influence of Christianity.

"I am an atheist and everybody knows it," he the London Telegraph this week. "But there are no excuses for making references to ancient Greece and Rome, and the Enlightenment, without making references to the Christian values which are so important to the development of Europe."

[Notwithstanding]

""I was the first Western journalist inside the KGB headquarters in 1990. The generals told me that the Vatican and the Pope above all was regarded as their number one, most dangerous enemy in the world." Soon enough, people of all sorts--world leaders, clandestine dissidents and ordinary Catholics--sensed the Communists were impotent before the Polish Pope."

[1rudeboy]

No, I just dont [sic] deal in pedantic views of history.

Show me.

[Notwithstanding]

<font size=4It was not just the Pope's hagiographers who told us that his first pilgrimage was the turning point. Skeptics who felt Wojtyla was never a part of the resistance said everything changed as John Paul II brought his message across country to the Poles. And revolutionaries, jealous of their own, also look to the trip as the beginning of the end of Soviet rule." "

[Notwithstanding]

"It was not just the Pope's hagiographers who told us that his first pilgrimage was the turning point. Skeptics who felt Wojtyla was never a part of the resistance said everything changed as John Paul II brought his message across country to the Poles. And revolutionaries, jealous of their own, also look to the trip as the beginning of the end of Soviet rule."

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Thread spamming? Why?

[Notwithstanding]

This is not spamming. It is responding to others who lie about what has been posted.

And posting a comment so it shows on the top of a new page (such as #101 instead of 99) is not new to FR nor seemingly abusive.

My my my - you don't like this evidence I posted, do you?

[Notwithstanding]

btw, direct response to #92

[Notwithstanding]

So, do you disagree with Bush's very recent declaration that JPII is "one of the greatest moral leaders of our time"?

Do you think the KGB generals were lying about JPII being their #1 source of fear?

Do you think the leaders of the Polish resistance are wrong in their assessment that the wall would not have come down without the overt actions of JPII?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

What you posted doesn't bother me in the least, but then again, I tend to look at lavish praise of JPII for "bringing down the Iron Curtain" as a kind of folie a deux - long on heartfelt belief that something happened, short on specific acts of daring do or anything particularly brave.

As far as I can see, he went to Poland in 1979 - a whooptedoo event that any Pope could be expected to do. He went again in '87, another speaking event - but again, it wasn't like it would have been denied by his pals in the party apparatus in Warsaw or in Moscow.

He always did seem to get on well with them, never really making waves, but frequently criticising Western culture - and most specifically, Americans.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Hi. Someone on here already spammed this thread in an attempt to (yet again) get it pulled, in posts 35 thru 55. They are at it again. They've done it before to get threads pulled. How about if we deal with the source, and not the symptom?

[Destro]

as I already posted-the decline was economic. The Pope gave the Polish moral support and Solidarity economic and logistic support (I know of a case were the Church helped smuggle in Xerox machines--a big deal when you don't have access to printers). But the Vatican did not start Solidarity nor did the Pope motivate the comming of Solidarity.

The late 70s were a disaster for the Eastern Bloc nations because of high oil prices--but not for Russia which exported oil to them. The Russians were able to hold on the communisim a little longer because of that. Russia was by then using the high price of oil as barter for a substitute to hard currency. When oil prices fell in the early 80s the barter system also began to collapse.

The Pope played the same role the Spanish kingdom played in helping the 13 colonies win against England. Very important but only important as part of the whole picture.

The way some describe it the Poles were not resisting Communisim till this Pope paid Poland a visit. That is not the case.

By my saying the Pope was not the main reason for the fall of communisim does not distract the important SUPPORTING role the Pope and the Vatican played on the sidelines of the final decade of the Cold War.

That the failed communist economic system was the fuel for revolt against the communists is confirmed by the fact that after Solidarity failed in power the Polish communists now renamed were voted into office again and is the current ruling party.

[Destro]

what is spaming?

[RedBloodedAmerican]

I'd agree with a good deal of your comments, sinkspur.

A note: I am starting to think that someone on here is not being honest, and actually is anti-catholic, disguising themself as a devout RC. They have done more harm than good to the name of Catholics by their posts here.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Multiple repetitions of the same post, or starting side arguments in order to redirect or kill a discussion on a thread (some people I will not name) accidentally posted that in the clear one day.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Immaturity.

[Notwithstanding]

Yes, lets deal with the problem of people who hate the pope and who come to every pope thread to defecate on it.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

I like my definition better :o)

[Notwithstanding]

Which part don't you agree with?
That would be interesting to know.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

That's awful! I agree! Let's find those who have stated they "hate the pope" and give them the boot!

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Look, if you don't like the direction the thread went, just ask nicely that it be deleted. Don't spam your own thread in the hope that it gets nuked - thats ridiculous.