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Blow to Blair over 'mobile labs'
The Guardian ^ | June 8, 2003 | Peter Beaumont and Antony Barnett

Posted on 06/08/2003 4:47:53 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator

Blow to Blair over 'mobile labs'

Saddam's trucks were for balloons, not germs

Peter Beaumont and Antony Barnett
Sunday June 8, 2003
The Observer


Tony Blair faces a fresh crisis over Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, as evidence emerges that two vehicles that he has repeatedly claimed to be Iraqi mobile biological warfare production units are nothing of the sort.

The intelligence agency MI6, British defence officers and technical experts from the Porton Down microbiological research establishment have been ordered to conduct an urgent review of the mobile facilities, following US analysis which casts serious doubt on whether they really are germ labs.

The British review comes amid widespread doubts expressed by scientists on both sides of the Atlantic that the trucks could have been used to make biological weapons.

Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987.

The British review follows access by UK officials to the vehicles which were discovered by US troops in April and May.

'We are being very careful now not to jump to any conclusions about these vehicles,' said one source familiar with the investigation. 'On the basis of intelligence we do believe that mobile labs do exist. What is not certain is that these vehicles are actually them so we are being careful not to jump the gun.'

The claim, however, that the two vehicles are mobile germ labs has been repeated frequently by both Blair and President George Bush in recent days in support of claims that they prove the existence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

During his whistle stop tour of the Gulf, Europe and Russia, Blair repeatedly briefed journalists that the trailers were germ production labs which proved that Iraq had WMD.

But chemical weapons experts, engineers, chemists and military systems experts contacted by The Observer over the past week, say the layout and equipment found on the trailers is entirely inconsistent with the vehicles being mobile labs. Both US Secretary of State Colin Powell, when he addressed the UN Security Council prior to the war, and the British Government alleged that Saddam had such labs.

A separate investigation published by the New York Times yesterday discloses that the trailers have now been investigated by three different teams of Western experts, with the third and most senior group of analysts apparently divided sharply over their function.

'I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter,' a senior analyst said of a tank supposed to be capable of multiplying seed germs into lethal swarms. The government's public report, he said, 'was a rushed job and looks political'. The analyst had not seen the trailers, but reviewed evidence from them.

Another intelligence expert who has seen the trailers told the US paper: 'Everyone has wanted to find the "smoking gun" so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion. I am very upset with the process.'

Questions over the claimed purpose of trailer for making biological weapons include:

· The lack of any trace of pathogens found in the fermentation tanks. According to experts, when weapons inspectors checked tanks in the mid-Nineties that had been scoured to disguise their real use, traces of pathogens were still detectable.

· The use of canvas sides on vehicles where technicians would be working with dangerous germ cultures.

· A shortage of pumps required to create vacuum conditions required for working with germ cultures and other processes usually associated with making biological weapons.

· The lack of an autoclave for steam sterilisation, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production. Its lack of availability between production runs would threaten to let in germ contaminants, resulting in failed weapons.

· The lack of any easy way for technicians to remove germ fluids from the processing tank.

One of those expressing severe doubts about the alleged mobile germ labs is Professor Harry Smith, who chairs the Royal Society's working party on biological weapons.

He told The Observer 'I am concerned about the canvas sides. Ideally, you would want airtight facilities for making something like anthrax. Not only that, it is a very resistant organism and even if the Iraqis cleaned the equipment, I would still expect to find some trace of it.'

His view is shared by the working group of the Federation of American Scientists and by the CIA, which states: 'Senior Iraqi officials of the al-Kindi Research, Testing, Development, and Engineering facility in Mosul were shown pictures of the mobile production trailers, and they claimed that the trailers were used to chemically produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.'

Artillery balloons are essentially balloons that are sent up into the atmosphere and relay information on wind direction and speed allowing more accurate artillery fire. Crucially, these systems need to be mobile.

The Observer has discovered that not only did the Iraq military have such a system at one time, but that it was actually sold to them by the British. In 1987 Marconi, now known as AMS, sold the Iraqi army an Artillery Meteorological System or Amets for short.

Additional reporting by Solomon Hughes


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balloons; barf; gasattack; iraq; labs; mobile; tonyblair; wmd
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Sadly, another of these sorry-looking contraptions turns out not to be able to produce 'weapons'.

Again, could these be the early days of Watergate 2? Time will tell.

1 posted on 06/08/2003 4:47:53 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Hogwash
2 posted on 06/08/2003 4:52:46 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Can't be another Watergate! No tape on the door locks.
3 posted on 06/08/2003 4:53:55 AM PDT by SubMareener
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To: SubMareener
But you may begin to hear the followng soon: 'what did the president know and when did he know it?'
4 posted on 06/08/2003 4:57:01 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: MEG33
Thanks, this settles it then.
5 posted on 06/08/2003 4:57:32 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
If these units were used to produce hydrogen, we would know by now. Hydrogen permeates everything. The walls of the vessels and pipes would be saturated with hydrogen if they were used for hydrogen production. And no amount of scrubbing would remove it.
6 posted on 06/08/2003 5:02:28 AM PDT by William McKinley (He has given me not answers, but questions! An invitation to marvel!)
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Good.Always glad to help.
7 posted on 06/08/2003 5:03:00 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
I wouldn't be so quick to jump on this B.S. bandwagon, RightWing.

Why would these trucks be buried if making hydrogen for balloons? Hmmm?

I'd be highly suspicious of anything originating from the Guardian newspaper.
8 posted on 06/08/2003 5:03:03 AM PDT by wunderkind54
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
We've been hearing that for months now. From desperate Democrats.

Is there a reason you are trying to sound like one of them?

9 posted on 06/08/2003 5:03:11 AM PDT by William McKinley (He has given me not answers, but questions! An invitation to marvel!)
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To: William McKinley
Inquiring minds want to know!
10 posted on 06/08/2003 5:04:21 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987.

That's the Scott Ritter theory. On the otherhand, says balooney to the hydrogen baloon theory. as does the CIA who have tracked down the designer of the labs and had him identify the captured trailers from photographs among other photos.

"Former U.N. weapons inspector David Kay told CNN on Saturday that though there was a "lack of strong evidence" that the vehicles had been used to produce deadly biological agents, "the most likely use" and "the most probable use" was to create biological weapons. He said suggestions that the mobile labs had some more benign application, such as producing agricultural chemicals, were unlikely. The CIA official, who has access to classified materials related to Iraq's alleged biological weapons program, said a key Iraqi intelligence source who had worked on the design of the mobile labs and provided intelligence about the program to the CIA before the war was asked to identify the vehicles from a series of photographs. The Iraqi source identified the correct trucks as the mobile biological weapons laboratories that he had described to U.S. intelligence. "

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/06/07/cia.mobile.labs/index.html

11 posted on 06/08/2003 5:06:17 AM PDT by finnman69 (!)
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To: William McKinley
Which also raises the question. Why would you scrub a benign hydrogen trailer down?
12 posted on 06/08/2003 5:07:02 AM PDT by finnman69 (!)
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To: William McKinley
If these units were used to produce hydrogen, we would know by now. Hydrogen permeates everything. The walls of the vessels and pipes would be saturated with hydrogen if they were used for hydrogen production. And no amount of scrubbing would remove it.

Look friend, if you had a 'D' in chemistry in high school you would know that the gas the most difficult to contain in a vessel happens to be Hydrogen. Clearly, you failed chemistry. Or, maybe you didn't and you are only trying to do one of those mind-manipulation things, assuming that everyone else reading this thread failed chemistry.

13 posted on 06/08/2003 5:10:48 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: finnman69
Who said that anything was scrubbed? It's the people who were looking for some germs and found nothing. They therefore agreed that the whole thing was 'scrubbed'. I won't be surprised that if anyone in the media asks the briefers to define or described what they meant by 'scrubbing' you may see some bery fast back-pedalling.
14 posted on 06/08/2003 5:13:10 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
It's too funny how people that are so desperate to tear down our President and Blair are in their own rush to judgment in trying to act(because they know the regime had an active WMD program)like Iraq was innocent all along and had no intentions of weapons of any sort. It's not supported by documents they've found in Iraq, not supported by the regimes desire for such weapons and the constant attempts to deny weapons inspectors from the UN, not supported by their use of such weapons, not supported by lib icons like Clintoon and the rest who have referred to Iraq's WMD, not supported by the gas masks found on those Iraqis throughout this war, and it is definately not supported by these trucks. They've got a serious credibility problem on their own due to the nature in which those trucks were found and claims that these trucks were only for 'balloons' is laughable, but the press continues on with their propaganda which is beyond acceptable. They clearly want to defend Saddam Hussein and that regime to the end and they can go down like that regime too because the media has no credibility with their bias that needs to be held to account.
15 posted on 06/08/2003 5:14:21 AM PDT by bushfamfan
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
You're clearly a member of the vast left-wing conspiracy. Another 'unbiased' sort like the press, hahaha.
16 posted on 06/08/2003 5:16:16 AM PDT by bushfamfan
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To: finnman69
Why would you scrub a benign hydrogen trailer down?

Exactly, that's what the numbnuts need to answer.

What purpose is there in hiding something or scrubbing it down if it's not used for illegal purpose?

As always Dems and Bush haters are just trying to invent evidence and cause speculation, just like a certain defence team of lawyers.

17 posted on 06/08/2003 5:17:05 AM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: William McKinley
It was members of the more senior 'team of experts' that looked at those moonshine things that expressed doubts. They were sent there by our government not by the Demos.

You must agree that for these government employee, on government payroll, to express doubts after the man at the top of the government announced that those thingies were 'germ labs' is not something one would do ligthly.
18 posted on 06/08/2003 5:17:08 AM PDT by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: MEG33
The Democrats WMD Fraud:
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists," the president of the United States warned. "If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."

The secretary of state loyally followed this hard line, defending the U.N. sanctions on Saddam Hussein: "There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It's just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

Leveraging U.N. resolutions to support military action, the secretary of defense said: "The United Nations has determined that Saddam should not possess chemical or biological or nuclear weapons, and what we have is the obligation to carry out the U.N. declaration."

The officials argued that U.N. inspections weren't enough. "It is ineffectual; it is not able to do its job by its own judgment," the president's national security adviser said of the U.N. inspections regime. "It doesn't provide much deterrence against WMD activity."

The president's congressional loyalists stood behind him. "Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction," said a prominent senator, sounding a familiar theme, "but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people."

"For the United States and Britain, an Iraq equipped with nuclear, chemical or biological weapons under the leadership of Saddam Hussein is a threat that almost goes without description," said another hawk, taking aim at the split in the international community. "France, on the other hand, has long established economic and political relationships within the Arab world, and has had a different approach."

Who were the political leaders who, according to critics of the Iraq war, perpetrated this fraud on the American people by making overblown warnings about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction? Respectively, President Bill Clinton, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Defense Secretary William Cohen, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Sen. Tom Daschle and Sen. John Kerry.

They were all speaking in the late 1990s when Clinton bombed Iraq to "degrade" an Iraqi WMD capacity that we are supposed to believe disappeared in the inspection-free years that ensued, only to be resurrected as a false justification for war by the Bush administration.

The failure so far to find WMD in Iraq is a major embarrassment for President Bush, and congressional hearings into the intelligence prior to the Iraq War are welcome. But the post-Iraq debate shouldn't proceed on false pretenses: Everyone this side of famed Iraqi prevaricator Baghdad Bob believed that Iraq had WMD. In the run-up to the war, the United Nations, the "axis of weasel" (France and Germany) and high-profile Democrats all agreed about WMD.

The specific figures in Secretary of State Colin Powell's U.N. presentation about Iraq's unaccounted-for WMD came from U.N. inspectors. France and Germany didn't argue that Saddam had no WMD, but inspections could rid him of them. Clinton and Al Gore dissented from aspects of Bush's policy, but agreed about WMD. "We know," Gore said, "he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons."

The question was what to do about a dictator with ties to terrorism who for 12 years had defied the procedures set out by the world to confirm that he no longer had dangerous weapons. For the Bush administration, Sept. 11 meant erring on the side of safety, and so continuing to accept Saddam's denials and defiance wasn't an option.

As someone once warned: "This is not a time free from peril, especially as a result of the reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals. We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century." Even if the rhetoric was shrill, Bill Clinton had a point.


19 posted on 06/08/2003 5:20:02 AM PDT by William McKinley (He has given me not answers, but questions! An invitation to marvel!)
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Actually, according to the initial reports concerning these mobile labs, it was reported that there were traces of caustic chemicals found inside the containers. This is how they know it was scrubbed down. But, all will be revealed in time and, once again, the President's critics will be revealed as the fools they are.
20 posted on 06/08/2003 5:20:34 AM PDT by Reaganesque
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