Robbed ex-cop kills suspect

Detroit Free Press ^ | 6/6/03 | Ben Schmitt and Cecil Angel

[Old Professer]

On disability retirement for 17 years and still shoots straight, not bad.

[G.Mason]

PSSSSssst!!

You forgot about the retired cop?

[Chemist_Geek]

If this guy were not an ex-cop, you can bet that the D.A. would be looking very hard at criminal charges for the victim

He may yet. Wayne county Prosecutor Mike Duggan is vehemently anti-self-defense. Under Michigan law, a CPL holder is entitled to carry "a concealed pistol." In contract law, "a" means one.

[Qwerty]

Glad to see he hit all three and killed one of them.

[Qwerty]

"When in doubt empty the clip."

If you empty your clip, can't you be accused of excessive force?

[TC Rider]

What? The third suspect was shot in the head and killed and ALL three were expected to live ???

Two perps and the victim Strickland.

[Chemist_Geek]

Didnt know they had CCW for citizens..in Detroit...

Barely. Michigan went shall-issue on 1 July 2001. However, each county is responsible for issuing the CPLs, and some counties have been, shall we say, less than cooperative.

As an example, while the law has two strict 30-day limits (for a legal maximum of 60 days) on how long an application may be pending before the county gun board must act, my CPL took 185 days. I know of someone whose took over nine months.

Genessee county prosecutor Art Busch used to put pamphlets from the MMM into the CPL application kits.

The Kent county gun board required applicants to provide a written statement from a physician testifying to the applicant's mental stability.

However, overall, things have went very well. Of course, the anti-self-defense crowds' Chicken Little act has completely failed to materialize. In the first year of the law, 53000 licenses were granted and 55 were revoked.

[Chemist_Geek]

If you empty your clip, can't you be accused of excessive force?

In the civil trial, using harsh language against the Bad Guys will be treated as execssive force... The Bad Guy's attorney will argue against everything one does in a self-defense situation; this is why it's not a good idea to have, for example, door signs like "I don't dial 911, I dial .357" or "Protected By Smith & Wesson".

[Gritty]

-The third suspect, Antonio Harris, 18, was killed after being struck in the head

Well, it looks like another child has been killed by out-of-control gun violence. Better call Sarah Brady and get some more laws passed to stop this awful child bloodbath.

[marktwain]

The Bad Guy's attorney will argue against everything one does in a self-defense situation; this is why it's not a good idea to have, for example, door signs like "I don't dial 911, I dial .357" or "Protected By Smith & Wesson".

This can happen, but it must be weighed against the deterrent effect of having the signs displayed. If the bad guy is deterred from attempting to victimize you, you have won, and you never have to go to court.

I don't think something as innoculous as "Protected by Smith & Wesson" would have much of an effect on juries here in Arizona, but this is the type of thing where everyone must evaluate the cost and benefit ratio for their own situation.

[William Tell]

From the article: "Strickland, 57, gave the young men $80 and credit cards. One of the teens then fired at Strickland, striking him in the stomach, Schwartz said.
The teens fled. Strickland opened fire with two handguns he was carrying legally ..."

Maybe... But perhaps Strickland waited until they began to flee, drew his weapon and started firing. Unable to neutralize all three quickly, one of the assailants managed to get off a shot at Strickland.

Whether true or not, that is probably the theory that the defense will use. The surviving assailants are possibly facing murder charges for causing a death in the commission of a felony.

[Nick The Freeper]

We have a sign that is visible once you step in the door that says "CAUTION FIREARMS IN USE KEEP OUT." I thought it would be funny to have inside. They have them at the shop in the National Firearms Musuem in the NRA headquarters and online here. My family isn't anti-gun, but I think they were surprised the first time they saw it.

[eno_]

Didn't think it would take long for the cop haters to find a problem with this. You people are morons and I would take a cop over you any day.

As long as I get the same treatment, rights and priviledges, I'm OK. Same treatment at traffic stops, same gun rights, etc. Or is that not what you had in mind?

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

The guy gets shot, fires 17 rounds off at the criminals, and then goes in and has a seat at the bar!

You know what they say. Under stress you revert to your training. Fires 11 rounds from his 9mm, NY reloads and fires 6 from his .25 and then heads off for a beer.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

A fleeing violent felon is fair game even in the blue zone of Seattle.

[Drew68]

I thought citizens with ccw permits could not enter a bar while carrying a gun.

I haven't heard of any such restrictions from the many places where CCWs have gone into effect. Lots of people get robbed leaving bars. I know I did.

It probably wouldn't be a good idea to get drunk while concealing but I don't know if even this is illegal providing you don't brandish your weapon without justification.

[Drew68]

If you empty your clip, can't you be accused of excessive force?

Not if that's what it took to stop the threat.

Not advisable though because a: You ought to pack a powerful enough piece and be a good enough marksman that multiple shots aren't needed and b: "Spraying and Praying" can put bystanders at risk. No one is going to call you a hero if you kill innocent people trying to protect yourself.

[Tailback]

If he was a REAL man he would have had a shot of whiskey while waiting for the Police and Ambulance to arrive. (sarcasm/)

Good work by the retired peace officer, 2 punks not likely to become repeat offenders, and 1 who definately won't.

[Charles H. (The_r0nin)]

Don't try it in Va. You can't carry in any establishment that has an on-premises ABC license. That means even a restaurant is off limits, even if they only serve wine...