Posted on 06/06/2003 2:03:14 PM PDT by jdege
BY CASEY SELIX
Pioneer Press
They're big, bold and — some complain — downright ugly, but they're bringing in a few bucks for local sign makers in a tepid economy.
Minnesota's new conceal-and-carry gun law requires businesses and other establishments to post signs at all entrances if they don't want gun-toting people roaming the halls.
But not just any old sign will do. The law says the sign must be at least 187 square inches in area, the black typeface must be Arial (which looks like this: Arial) and 1½ inches in height, and the background must be a bright, contrasting color. The sign must say: "(Name of establishment) bans guns in these premises."
Area sign makers say they're dealing with hundreds of inquiries and producing some sizable orders since the posting requirement went into effect late last month. Though the new commerce is a welcome bonus in a slow economy, sign makers don't expect a long-term bonanza.
"It's certainly been pennies from heaven for us, but it isn't going to fund my retirement," said Tom Trutna, owner of SigntificGraphics in Eagan.
Depending on the quality of the sign material and the quantity ordered, prices can range from $6 to nearly $50 apiece, according to the sign makers interviewed for this story. Typical profits on signs are double or more the makers' costs, said one sign maker.
Trutna recently sent out a "blast fax" to 400 members of the Northern Dakota County Chamber of Commerce to advise that his firm could quickly produce customized signs. Signtific's first order came from Northwest Airlines, he said.
A couple of pesky issues keep surfacing in customer inquiries, Trutna and others said.
"Frankly, when these signs are laid out to the letter of the law, they're ugly and alarming," Trutna said. "I've got people saying, 'Geez, I want to post something, but I don't want it to be big, gaudy and fear-inducing.' "
David Goldstein, a partner at the Faegre & Benson law firm who has conducted seminars on the conceal-and-carry law, said businesses are understandably concerned about the aesthetics.
"That's been a big complaint, and it's not a trivial complaint," Goldstein said. "A lot of businesses spend a lot of money to create an atmosphere. They pay to have fancy signs. They pay image and branding consultants. So, they're upset about having to stick something like this in the middle of a carefully crafted lobby or customer space that is dictated to them by the Legislature."
Trutna said the ugliness issue and the fear factor could be keeping some businesses from posting the signs.
Others aren't taking any chances.
The Woodbury Operations Center of State Farm Insuranceordered 40 signs to post at the center and at its claims and field agency offices throughout the state, said spokeswoman Anne Obst.
"We've always had this (weapons ban) policy at State Farm, but we posted the signs to be in compliance with the new state law," Obst said.
State Farm's order delivered a nice boost to the Sign-A-Rama franchise in Maplewood, said owner Bob Siegel. In the past two weeks, his small company has taken 200 orders for conceal-and-carry signs from customers ranging from a Laundromat to State Farm.
"It's gravy-type work," Siegel said. "It's not going to put you over the top, but any time you pick up a couple extra thousand in a month, that's nice."
Davin Brandt, general manager of Budget Sign-Graphics in St. Paul, started alerting customers last month that the company had developed a couple of black-on-white formats.
The business, on Territorial Road near Highway 280, also just erected this week an eye-catching banner declaring that conceal-and-carry signs are available there. The small firm has fielded 200 inquiries and landed several orders.
The bulk of Budget's orders so far are for aluminum signs that can be affixed to building exteriors, Brandt said. He strongly advises customers to stick with the basic black-on-white format and message.
Some customers like to soften the tone of the sign, he said. One recently added a mannerly message below its ban: "Thank you for respecting our wishes. It's the law."
Attorney Goldstein said he doesn't expect any "sign police" to go after businesses that use a wrong typeface, color or size for the conceal-and-carry bans. Even so, the sign subject could come up in a trespass case, he said.
"The only person likely to raise that issue is someone who is an activist in favor of the law who is looking to broaden or establish their rights," he said.
ONLINE
For more information on complying with the conceal-and-carry law, go to www.faegre.com/articles/article_960.asp.
I said in a "discrete" manner. Should someone start making a scene by yelling in a theater, the theater can ask them to leave. If they don't, they can be charged with tresspass.
The same thing goes for someone carrying a gun. If a business owner finds out about it, and asks them to leave, they have to, or they can get charged with tresspass.
But it shouldn't be a crime to simply carry a gun into business, any more than it should be a crime to take your mouth into a theater.
And a Free man or woman should be able to ignore it in any manner they please, just as Rosa Parks ingored the bus driver telling her to sit in the back of the bus.
My point...Business should be allowed to tell their customers in any way they deem effective. Micromanaging the font and background is absurd.
Business should be allowed to tell their customers in any way they deem effective. Micromanaging the font and background is absurd.
If we hadn't seen a pattern of clear abuse in other states, I'd agree with you.
But the record of states that don't have explicit posting requirements is clear - if we give business owners the choice, the signs will be small, illegible, and in locations where no one can see them.
We could have used you on the Boycott Applebees thread. We were swarming with Anti-CCW'ers who claim to be pro-2nd Amendment. I should have known to ping Mulder. (slaps hand to forehead)
If it's a public business, sure.
Now if the property owner ask you to leave and you don't, then it's criminal tresspass, perhaps armed tresspass, depending on state laws.
Why is it you want to make criminals out of honest Americans for simply walking into the wrong place? Why won't simple tresspass laws suffice?
You can change the color of your skin either permanently or temporarily.
To equate hundreds of years of persecution of black people with not being able to carry your gun into the Dairy Queen is terrible.
Some folks here would say it wasn't "persecution", but merely property owners exercising their rights.
If, in your view, it's immoral to discriminate people who choose to carry guns, then perhaps it's also immoral to discriminate against people who choose to engage in homosexual activity.
I believe that people have the Right to associate or do business with whomever they please. If someone doesn't want gun owners or gays or whomever in their store, they can verbally ask them to leave.
What I oppose is making it illegal for someone to go into a public business just because someone posts a sign saying "no (fill-in-the-blank)". There are enough laws on the books as it is.
Yeah, there's a lot of folks around here who fall into that category.
They think folks should go to jail for simply carrying a gun into the "wrong" place, even after they've jumped through all the hoops and filled out all the paperwork to get a permit for something which is a Right.
Here in Florida, we don't have to worry about all this nonsense, since a "no guns" sign has no legal backing whatsoever.
True. So very true. However...
Said Free man needs to be aware he has a little more at stake in breaking this law than did Rosa Parks. Said Free man should be aware the he may have to relinguish not only his future right to carry but also his future right to even own a firearm.
I agree. Though "Attention criminals, no one on these premisis may posess a weapon for any reason" might be a more interesting rendition.
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