Is Dubya Damien Thorn? (The left has lost their mind)

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | 03Jun03 | Tony Norman

[chief_bigfoot]

Is Dubya Damien Thorn?

Tuesday, June 03, 2003

Apparently, it isn't just Democrats who think George W. Bush is the Antichrist. A minority of religious conservatives are taking a second look at the 43rd president of the United States to gauge where the man who recently conquered Babylon fits into their parochial view of biblical prophecy.

Such talk, oddly enough, is limited to only a few extremist sites on the Internet.

[TheGeezer]

It was. But Christ's teaching certainly affected what John wrote, since John was an apostle. John would not have written anything Christ did not tell him to write. Additionally, Christ would not contradict Himself.

Regards

[TheGeezer]

For Scriptural understanding - or any other differences (denominational or any, for that matter) - Paul commanded that matters be taken to the church, and the church would decide the matter. Denominations arise because humans claim to have the same teaching authority given by Christ to His church alone.

In the first three hundred years of the church, there was no New Testament anyone could refer to anyway, to decide matters. It was the Church that formulated the New Testament canon in (I think) the fourth century.

What I believe cannot contradict what that Church - the Church that defined what books should be in the New Testament - teaches, if I wish to believe the truth.

Regards

[Mustang]

Based upon some of your above statements and replies, I guess I'm doomed and going to hades.

How silly of me. And I thought being a married, loving and faithful husband for 33 years; a proud father of 3 grown and good young adult children; a honest..(yet,flawed)..man who believes in a "Higher Power" and Creator, although maybe not the "One" found in binded books and religious pass-down traditions, would count for something.

Mustang sends from "Malpaso News"

[2timothy3.16]

I am sorry to read that, you use the word silly, while that would not be my first choice of words, silly will do.

[Mustang]

Well, what is your first choice of words?

I have thick skin and an open mind. Please, pray tell me your reason to be sorry for my "silly" position.

Mustang sends from "Malpaso News"

[2timothy3.16]

What would be my first choice of words for someone who ignores the salvation offered by the Lord and thinks he can work his way into heaven?

Stubbon, blind, foolish perhaps.

The Lord made salvation easy, attainable, and absolutely mandatory. He spoke clearly in John chapter three, leaving no room for anyone to work their way into heaven.

I think it is wonderful that you are a good father, a good husband, a good provider, a man who loves his wife, his family and his life. But, unless the Bible is a lie, that will not get you through the front door to heaven.

[Buggman]

Hi, Clint. A suggestion, if I may:

Reading Revelation without first being familiar with a couple of other things will just confuse you. If you are seriously interested in understanding the last book of Scripture, let me suggest that you first study Daniel 9, the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks. After you've done that, read the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24-25 and Mark 13) and cross-reference the event mentioned in both, the Abomination of Desolation. You may wish to actually draw yourself an outline.

After that, you can dive into Revelation and plot it on your timeline. I think you'll find that the fifth seal neatly corresponds to the Great Tribulation and that the sixth corresponds to the "signs in the heavens" that Jesus described as accompanying His Coming. You'll also find that Revelation does not depict events in strictly chronological order.

If you get stuck and want someone to kick ideas around with, feel free to email me at mdbugg@msn.com. I'll be happy to try to get you unstuck while leading you as little as possible.

[Buggman]

I agree. And I'm happy to say that I am in fact Born Again. I just happen to be a little unorthodox in premillennial circles. ;^)

[Clint N. Suhks]

Thanks Buggman, in all honesty I’ve only read up to 1 Thessalonians and haven’t looked at the NT in at least a year other than the readings we hear during Mass. So it’s Daniel 9, Matthew 24-25 and Mark 13 and I can skip to Revelation? No need to review any of 1-3 John? Anyway, when I get started I’ll let you know if I have problems, in the mean time thanks again for your thoughtful post and insight.

[MississippiMan]

You're already right. This issue is far from confined to a tiny handful right now. I don't believe it, but there has been considerable discussion of it going on for some time among those who follow prophetically significant events, and it's recently been exacerbated by his zeal to divide the state of Israel.

MM

[MississippiMan]

Sad to see a post that on some level advocates following Jesus, yet is so incredibly bitter and cynical in tone. And it sure would seem that you're the one who has it all figured out, despite the relentless hammering of others who dare to read and discuss the Bible.

MM

[Buggman]

1-3 John, while they contain a few prophetic insights, aren't really prophetic books per se. There are some 2100 individual end-times prophecies scattered through the Bible, but many of them make no sense simply by themselves. You need the larger context.

Since you've not really delved into prophecy before, what you want right now more than anything else is a framework, a basis on which to make sense of the whole, correct? The passages that I've recommended to you will help you build that framework in the form of a prophetic timeline of Revelation's prophecies. Once you have that, a lot of the little references found scattered throughout the Gospel accounts, the epistles, and especially the OT start to fall into place.

Another recommendation, if I may. When you come across a symbol (particularly in Revelation), don't try to interpret it by traditions, commentaries, or personal insights at first. Get a hold of a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and/or some good Bible study software (I can recommend a couple of free packages for download if you'd like), and see how that symbol is used elsewhere in Scripture. You'll find that the Bible has a symbolic language of sorts, where, for example, the Beast of Revelation 13's parts are explained in chapter 17 of the same book and in Daniel chapter 7.

The last and most important thing for you do to is pray. The Bible promises in James 1:5 that God will give wisdom to anyone who asks without passing judgment if only they believe that He will. Hold Him to that in your prayers, both in general and specifically when you get stuck on a particular passage. Now, that won't mean that the next thing that pops into your mind will necessarily be correct, but over time, you'll find all sorts of insights revealed to you that you would never notice on your own.

As before, please hold onto my email address and drop me a line when you get stuck or just want to have someone to bounce some ideas off of. Don't worry if you think those ideas are strange; I may steer you to a passage that contradicts your idea or I may offer you one of my own that I think better fits the whole picture, but I'll never make fun of yours.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I have a question... why the fascination with looking for the anti-Christ? If you sent you path correctly, and follow Jesus, does it really matter who he is, or when he arrives?

That said, I am fearful of the end-times, and I do hope that I am not hear, when the time comes... I want to be safe in heaven, with the Lord.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

IF YOU SET YOUR PATH CORRECTLY, I meant to say... thinking faster than I type. Sorry!

[Miss Marple]

Myself, I don't know why the fascination.

I personally think that it is a pointless quest.

However, it IS a useful tool for some on the left, as can be seen by this article.

[MississippiMan]

Everytime one of these threads pops up--I'm speaking in general, not about those to whom I've addressed this message--people seem to pour out of the woodwork to give Jesus's quote about no one knowing the day or the hour, as if that renders everyone with an interest in this to be off-base. What they fail to grasp is the fact that along with that quote, Jesus Himself admonished us to watch for the signs of the ends of the age.

Yes, accepting Jesus and having a personal relationship with Him is primary, but there are plenty of other aspects of the Bible that we are to study. Different people are fascinated with different aspects. There are LOTS of biblically ignorant saved people out there who might well wind up with a mark on their hand or forehead if not for those who take Jesus's instructions on this topic seriously.

MM

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I do believe that we should all be watchful, and in admitting my own fear over the tribulations to come, I admit that I hope I will not have to witness them. I suppose it is my own inability to proclaim just where we are in time, and when Christ's return will happen, that leads me to hope that my faith will be sufficient.

[MississippiMan]

Hey, I don't want to be here either, Pan, and I do believe pretty strongly (80% or so) in a pre-trib Rapture. But I'll also say that the 20% is worth paying attention to. And yes, I know my faith will be sufficient for my eternal soul, but I also think we should be prepared for what we might go through here. Plus, eschatology has always fascinated me and I enjoy researching and discussing it. I figure God made me that way for a reason.

MM