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To: sweetliberty
"Again, you are allowing the man to abandon any responsibility for his sexual behavior."

My babe reel it in. Get a grip. The only responsible person is the Man. If you as woman are with out responsibility for your behaviour are you a good role model for a child or do you just wish to manage this miracle of creation as just a profit center. If I have read this wrong please help me through this difficult situation. Both parties can choose to keep it zipped. If your premis is true mine as a Male is the greater responsibilty. If so then as the more responsible partner allow me to take on the greater responsibility. Visit two weekends a month maybe once during the week and send me your money. I promise I won't get my nails done with your child support.

best regards

the dozer
70 posted on 05/31/2003 6:27:14 PM PDT by dozer7
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To: dozer7; TheBattman; Ahban; MHGinTN; nicmarlo
I absolutely do NOT believe it is all the man's responsibility. Read my post #37. What I was challenging was garbanzo's premise that it is all the woman's responsibility. It takes 2 to make a baby, and both have a choice. In the event that both make a bad choice then the responsibility, likewise, falls to BOTH of them.
73 posted on 05/31/2003 6:35:59 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: dozer7; sweetliberty
sweetlibery clearly stated that a decision was made before the child was concieved - that decision was to have sex - regardless of the marital status.

The KNOWN possible outcome of sex is a child. Anyone not ready to accept that responsibility should refrain from having sex - PERIOD.

If a man father's a child, in or out of wedlock, he is 50% responsible for bringing that child into the world, thus 50% of the responsibility is his. I don't care if the guy is unemployed or a multi-millionare. He still has that responsibility.

Now, I will not argue with the fact that the system in place to supposedly collect child support "for the children" is extremely flawed. A local woman who is divorced received a check from the State of Arkansas for a wopping 64 cents for that month's child support! In her case, the father really is a deadbeat. He was a slimeball when they were together (her fault for picking the ex-husband as a sperm-donor) and has proven himself to be nothing better since that time. Yet he can make these minimal payments to the state child support office each month and it keeps them from garnishing his wages. This is called a corrupt system.

My stepfather was once severely behind on his child support to his ex wife. She was an extremely abusive woman (once actually striking my step-father in the head with a meat tenderizer hammer - causing lovely injuries). Yet the idiot courts at that time (nearly 30 years ago) placed the children in the mother's custody. The ex-wife then proceeded on a personal defamation mission - causing my step-father to loose several jobs. He had very good grounds for a lawsuit against her, but wanted to do what was right for the kids. Unfortunately his reputation was rapidly being eroded. He finally moved out of state to try to get away from the harassing phone calls from this woman (He kept answering machine tapes that I have heard - she was obviously a raving lunatic). She would track him down and then call his employer and harass them. Eventually he would loose another job - thus the income required to make child support payments. After his 3rd move - this time to Arkansas, the ex-wife finally lost contact for a few years. In that time, he had quit making his child support payments. The youngest child was the only one still young enough to receive the payments, but he didn't want to contact his ex-wife because he knew she would start her campaign against him yet again.

Michigan Child Support Enforcement finally tracked him down a few years later - garnishing his wages until he had paid an enormous "back support" bill. Much of the bill was not even backed up by the original support order. They also had charged him interest on the support payments in arears. The hounding of Michigan's support enforcement nearly cost him another job, even though the payments were being made. It finally took the actions of a good attorney to call the dogs off.

And guess what - after the dust cleared (and he has a very good relationship with one of his daughters) he discovered that the children never saw a single penny of all the money sent to them. In fact, the mother continued to lie to them telling them even in adulthood that he never paid a penny. The children never received the Birthday, Christmas, Easter, etc. cards and gifts sent. They received nothing.

I have often disagreed with my Step-Father over the 16 years I have known him, but he has always been very honest and to-the-point. His life was devastated by the child support system over and over (as well as by the ex-wife).

You know what? Regardless of the situation, he did marry that other wife. He did choose to father chidren with the woman. He WAS responsible for supporting those children.

My primary beef with the child suport system - support amounts are often set arbitrarily with no real consideration (or flexibility) to the real-world variations in income. In a family setting, a father's income is subject to the same risks. Yet suddenly when divorced (or never married to begin with) the same exact level of child suport is demanded, regardless of the circumstances. Should allowences be made when the father looses his job? How about if he is disabled? The answer is yes. Unfortunately, many child support systems do not take such circumstances into consideration. Another obstacle - those worst of times, when the father is out of work or disabled, he doesn't have the financial resources to hire a lawyer to even try to get the child support adjusted. Thus the father winds up owing back support, often with major interest added as well as fines.

I hope this post has made some sense - I am up past my bed time and I am exhausted. Maybe I will revisit this thread tomorrow when I have had a bit of rest. Goodnight all.

118 posted on 05/31/2003 8:53:51 PM PDT by TheBattman
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