Posted on 05/29/2003 6:59:00 PM PDT by SJackson
With all due respect, in the eyes of the Jewish community they are no longer considered Jewish if they converted to Christianity. In my view, and that of most even somewhat traditional Jews I know, being a Christian and being a Jew are mutually exclusive. So-called Messianic Jews are Christians.
He talks about how his rabbi also talked about the horrors and deceitfullness of christians trying to convert Jews. He was told never to open a New Testament and how it was filled with lies and nazi propaganda.
You know, we moved around a fair amount when I was growing up, and I have travelled extensively and lived in both the U.S. and Israel. I have attended many synagogues over the years, either modern Orthodox or Masorti/Conservative, and I have never heard a rabbi or Jewish teacher say any such thing. I am honestly amazed to read it. I most certainly have read the New Testament. I've read the Koran as well. I was never discouraged from doing so, even as a child.
How could any christian hate Jews since Jesus was a Jew?
I honestly don't know, since I am not a Christian. However, there is certainly a long history of anti-Semetism in many Christian denominations, and a long history of persecution of Jews by Christians in Europe and elsewhere. Please understand, I am not accusing you or anyone else on this board of anti-Semetism. I am saying that there is anti-Semetism among many who call themselves Christians even today. As I do not understand why anyone would hate someone just because of their religion I suspect I will never understand why.
What is the Jewish teaching regarding abortion. I've read some believe that abortion is O:K and some don't.
That is pretty much accurate. The rather mainstream interpretation I've heard from rabbis of congregations I attended is that the Jewish view is that life begins at birth. I know some of the ultra-Orthodox do not share that view. FWIW, I am decidedly pro-choice, which is why I tend to stay away from that topic on an American conservative board such as this one.
And where does gun control come in the picture?
I do not believe it enters into the picture at all, at least from a religious standpoint. I think Jews are as diverse on this issue as any other group. Some will be for, others will be against.
Thank you for being willing to have a dialog. Sometimes the name calling that happens on boards like this is quite discouraging. An intelligent discussion with people from different backgrounds is always welcome to me.
I cannot precisely fathom all that is in your mind as far as your comments, but you seem to have projected my short, simple and undisputable comment into the future, plus you have condemned the Jewish way of life. First of all, I wasn't going into the future. Secondly, I don't think the way of life of us Chistian folks here in the U.S. is always too God-like myself. Perhaps you are merely trying to say that you believe that God has forsaken the Jews -- and anyone else who has not accepted Jesus -- entirely. Well, if this is what you mean you probably should just have said that. I would disagree, but that is another complex issue entirely.
What we both think based on just our comments alone can coexist; one belief does not obliterate the other. In the end, what you say may or may not prove true about the salvation of people who are not Christians or Messianic Jews. But the Jews are God's stated chosen people and that will never change because God acted in our past. God also always referred to "remnants." What do you think He means? Do you believe that everyone of any faith who has not accepted Jesus will not have a chance for salvation?
As far as Hal Lindsey, I have heard about him but I don't know exactly what he believes. I understand he is a sort of self-proclaimed preacher or prophet like Benny Hinn, etc, that people have very mixed emotions over. I have never felt inclined to seek out Lindsey or Hinn, especially after seeing the latter on television. Too flashy.
I myself am a life long kinda lapsed Episcopalian who has in the past 3 years given more time to the Roman Catholic Church. Then, when 911 and then the priest scandals happened, I withdrew going on a regular basis. For prophecy, I follow a forum on the web that posts interesting articles about anything Christian; what is happening as far as terrorism as it relates to end times; and also the Holy Land in general(it is raptureready.com). They also sometimes talk about pre and post-trib, but I don't follow that issue. There is so much else on the raptureready forums that is interesting and heart warming to me as a Christian. There is also much disagreement, of course. They like to expose false prophets, etc,.
But back to you comment: Does one need to follow Lindsey in order to love Israel and the Jewish people? I doubt it. I follow no particular human being; I hear what every lover of God and Christ has to say though. I believe the Bible, but even so, there is so much we cannot know or even be certain we have interpreted correctly. For example, the Temple was ruined twice. That does not mean that God has forsaken the Jews forever. God allowed our Twin Towers to tumble, but I think He is still with us. I wish I had the surety that your posts imply.
One should not lecture on what one does not have a clue at.
Clue for the clueless: The tribulation only strengthened the church, but it destroyed the entire Jewish way of life.
Funny, I see the Jewish way of life flourishing every day. See my comment above.
Where you are tripping up is in the meaning of the word conversion. That is a major stumbling block to the Jews as they do not understand the Christian Biblical perspective, (nor do some Christians for that matter). Jews see conversion as abandoning Judeism and becoming a Christiann. Conversion in Christianity is Gentiles becoming part of the family of God because of the sacrifice of Christ. Conversion is not offered to the Jews by God, they ALREADY ARE the family! It is the Christians who convert, Jews cannot.
Many Christians stumble on the concept because they normaly deal with other Gentiles, not Jews. By failing to understand the Jews relationship with God, they just lump the Jews in with all the rest. That does not work well. There are two classes in Gods family, the Jews, and their friends, the Christians.
Both need the Messiah as all men fall short of the Glory of God. The Jews just have not figured out who the Messiah is... yet.
Oh they are far worse, trust me. I hang with a lot of Christians, the very group this article is talking about and NOT ONE prays for the destruction of Israel. You are seeing the hand of the Jew and Christian haters here in this article.
It is very well written, the Lie is very carefully woven in as a broad misconception, but the total premise is garbage from the start. It is a well crafted lie, and quite intentional.
There is a very small rather bigoted group of Christianity that does not know its own scriptures, nor follow them, but take the Name of Christ anyway. They all come under the "once saved, always saved heresy", and try to use their Christanity as a "Heavenly fire excape". There is a scripture for them, it is about the seperation of the wheat and the tares, there is another where it talks of God judgeing those who claim the name of Christ. It goes like this (highly shortened), One man says "But I healed others in your Name", and God says Go to hell, truely I say to you I never knew you. Another says "when did I heal others in your name", And God says "when you healed the least of mine, so you did to me", Go to heaven my faithful servant.
God is not about religion, he is about relationship, and those who never bothered to read the Bible, who never tried to understand WHO God is, will learn the hard way in the end. The name of Christ Jesus is not a magic wand that just by knowing it you win, and I can prove it.
His name is Yeshua, not Jesus, there is no J in hebrew. You had better know Him, not just be quoting a name.
Nobody, they are the same religion. There is no scriptural mandate to "convert" or "save" the Jews. It exists only in the unscriptural understanding of the unlearned or unstudied. You believe this to be true, and you may have run into people who believe this to be true, but frankly it is horse manure.
If you want to understand the core of the scritural mandate between the Christians and the Jews by the what the scriptures say, read them. Try Romans chapter 10 and 11. That is where the rubber meets the road between the Christians and the Jews. Two chapers, read them. And I highly recommend any Christian who is not sure what to think to read them too. If you think being Christian gives you the upper hand over a Jew, you need to read them.
Hint, the Jew is the elder brother, not the younger. To trade Judaism in for Christianity is like the eldest son trading his heritage for a bowl of beans. It is the Christian who is the adopted son, not the Jew.
What about an orphan? Who, aside from the murderers, could blame and profit from the orphan of misbehaving if his guiding parents have been murdered?
Very good point. I must add however, that any disagreement between older and younger brother require both to submit to objective and impartial intermediation. Shades of Cain and Abel, Pharoh and Moses, Jona's revolt etc...
Sorry, I do not understand what you are getting at here.
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