Death Penalty Talking Points (Amazingly, the Left shows its hand)

The Nation ^ | December 18, 2002 | Lisa Weinert

[rdb3]

Yes you, this "break news" literature from 2002 is full of their cliques.

Hello! It's from The Nation for crying out loud.

Look at how I rephrased the title. I purposefully added "Amazingly, the Left shows its hand."

So now I guess I agree with the article and am now against the death penalty. Gimme a break, puh-leeze!

The bombing starts in five minutes.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

The Nation is a Communist paper. Why is it given credibility by our media? I guess they think everyone is dummied down and won't remember the roots of this paper.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

I understand what you added to the title....so?

I was hoping that was what your point was, its hypocritical to be against the DP, but proabortion, but your in title/first post there certainly was too little indication of that how you were defining "show their hand".

I'm pleased you aren't with those on the right who do define their pretentious beliefs against DP, but you do need to s'plain these things, don't assert it. There are many in the Catholic Church (left) who are adamently against the DP who are characterized as the "religious Right." I'm a Catholic so I hear this cr@p too much and I fight against it being defined as Conservative, sorry to jump down your throat.

[MHGinTN]

I would be willing to bet my life that not one executed criminal has ever committed another crime following his/her execution ... and I would make the same bet that not a single grandchild has been born to an individual abortion killed prior to birth. There's something rather final about both perspectives, but society has a right to protect its citizens from criminals who commit capital crimes. I'm still trying to find the paralleling antithesis to apply for the little ones purposely killed my approved serial killers.

[A_perfect_lady]

I think it's very valid to take their arguments, every one of them, and apply them to abortion. Now, of course, if you run into someone who is opposed to both the death penalty AND abortion, this tactic won't work. But I suppose if someone were against both they probably wouldn't offend Freepers as much.

[Kip Lange]

I'm not so sure about that, recent polls that I have seen, show 2 things, opposition against abortion is rising, and in equal and corresponding numbers, opposition to the death penalty is growing.

These are salient points.

I think everybody is being a little hoodwinked here.

The Nation ran this. What if we assume that this is not a tipping of the hand, but a faux tipping of the hand? The greatest political ability is the ability to set the agenda. Do we want to run in 2004 on the death penalty?

No. We want to run on the success in the war. Face it.

Getting into hair-splitting semantics about the death penalty (which I seem to shift positions on about five times a day, although I always end up leaning right) creates opposition and dissent in our camp, not theirs.

Why let it? Most of us are in agreement on this issue. The few who are not in agreement (on our side) do not see it as a defining issue.

Let's not make it one. ;-)

How about taking third-trimester abortion and repeatedly shoving that down the Dems' throats? Make sure we take the agenda -- that we are proactive, and not reactive.

[MHGinTN]

Hmm, let's see, the unborn alive little one is totally innocent and never give a 'fair trial' but the woman giving life support to her can pass a death sentence upon that innocent little baby waiting to be bor ... a capital criminal has at the very least some evidence to stand as convicting to guilt toward fellow human beings. ... No, I don't think it will wash.

[MHGinTN]

But all that said, I'd be willing to end the death penalty if abortion on deamnd also ended and abortion became used as a medical procedure only to save a woman's life endangered by a continuing pregnancy.

[KC_Conspirator]

Between 1973 and 2001, 89 death-row inmates were found to be innocent and subsequently were exonerated, escaping death by hours in some cases (The Nation, January 8-15, 2001).

Thats a lie.

[farmfriend]

It has occurred to me that there is no index for black issues. I double checked the bump list register and found Latin American, Native American, Zionist, reverse racism, but nothing for black issues. One should be created. I read an article recently about black incarceration and it would be easy to find with an index (bump) list.

I know the bump list register was closed to new additions but perhaps an exception could be made for this since we have so many articles dealing with black issues and mhking can't ping everyone of them.

[Kip Lange]

Further note to self: If we do actually want to bring this issue out in force (why, I don't know), reframe to: Crime. Republicans have better track records on crime; the death penalty is merely an outgrowth of the majority of conservative 'Pub's approach to crime. Why immediately jump to the death penalty? Why approach a lit powderkeg with a match?

[Kip Lange]

I second that notion.

[MHGinTN]

It is a lie in the 'mischaracterization' category so dear to the lying liberal heart. That an inmate's guilt might come to be legally questionable as he/she approaches execution is all that need be presented for a stay of execution, and that stay is at the discretion of a judge in some states, the Governor in some states, and even a prison warden or the president of the U.S. can issue a stay in some states. A stay doesn't mean automatic innocence.

[farmfriend]

We will probably have to petition for one. Let the powers that be know of your support.

[Kip Lange]

Agreed. Pinging the powers that be...see farmfriend's original post.

[Sonny M]

Listen, I believe that life begins at conception, my arguement against abortion and for the death penalty has been simple.

When unborn children start killing people, then I will start re-thinking this, but untill then, I don't believe children should be murdered.

However, looking at polls, both in college, and even, going over to the DUmpster, suggest the same thing, we have a growing pro-life group in this country, the problem is, they consider themselves "true pro-life", they do not like the death penalty, or abortion but they will vote republican, because they hate abortion, but they are NOT pro-death penalty.

I meet people who are like this too every other day, I am not going to blame certain groups, but it is wierd, they do not differentiate between killing somone and commiting no crime, to them, murder or no murder, no one should die, honestly, somone is influential on these kids, I don't know who, and I do not like it, because if these kids can not see the difference between guilt and innocence, we are lost.

[Kip Lange]

I am not challenging your argument in the least. I am questioning the merits of allowing ourselves to become divided on an issue where we naturally are usually united.

Your points regarding personal responsibility and accountability are very well-taken. Understand that I am only arguing election-year realpolitik here. On principle, I agree with you about 95% (the only 5% that waffles is the 5% that goes into deep internal philosophical debates regarding "dharmic order", so to speak).

[Kip Lange]

Further response...I share your outrage on the issue of "the line must be drawn *somewhere*".

[KC_Conspirator]

Exactly.

[SendShaqtoIraq]

"The death penalty does not deter crime.

The United States has a murder rate three times higher than that of European countries, all of whom have abolished capital punishment (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org).

There is no solid evidence that the death penalty decreases crime. Former Attorney General Janet Reno says, "I have inquired for most of my adult life about studies that might show that the death penalty is a deterrent. And I have not seen any research that would substantiate that point" (Reuters, January 21, 2000)."

The death penalty here doesn't deter crime because the criminal is given years and years to appeal; future criminals see no real connection with their prospective crime and eventual execution. If the execution were carried out quickly after sentencing, we WOULD see a decrease in that type of crime.
That said, I oppose the death penalty because if one innocent is wrongly executed, it is one too many.

"Administering the death penalty is far more expensive than imprisoning the offender for life.

Sending a killer to death row costs an average of $2.3 million (Dallas Morning News), three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for forty years (Jackson, Jackson Jr., Shapiro, Legal Lynching, The New Press).

Florida has spent more than $51 million a year more on state executions than it would have spent on punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to the Palm Beach Post (Jackson, Jackson Jr., Shapiro, Legal Lynching, The New Press)."

NO. It isn't the administering of the death penalty that costs so much. It is the ENDLESS appeal process.

Some criminals deserve to be executed, but until there is a fool proof way to keep innocent people from being convicted, I have to be against it in any case. However, there should be NO parole for those convicted of violent offenses. "Sentenced to life in prison" should mean "as long as you have life, you remain in prison." Still no picnic for someone wrongly convicted, but at least they still have a chance of being exonerated.