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To: biblewonk
And that is precisely how RC's "use" the bible. It's all a matter of "what can we get away with because it is not expressly forbidden".

I think you've deliberately read past me.

There is such a thing as a Scriptural inference, and they are drawn all the time, even by Christians who adhere to sola Scriptura.

I provided a Scriptural argument - as far as I can see, to deny that we can continue to request the intercession of our fellow Christians simply because they have experienced a physical death which Christ himself explicitly came to free them from is a position which requires a Scriptural defense in and of itself.

It is a legitimate matter of Scriptural debate, but I do not think I am "using" Scripture when I seek to assert Christ's sovereignty over death and the essential unity of His body, the Church.

I understand that you seek to defend a doctrine of Christ's sole mediation for the believer, and that you think that the intercession of the saints undermines it. I do not think you are "using" Scripture by refusing to consider the Scriptural description of what the Church is or the full implications of Christ's triumph over death.

I think that this issue is one on which their is no clear Scriptural decision for either position, but at the same time one which carries a wealth of suggestive Scriptural evidence.

81 posted on 05/28/2003 1:52:54 PM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: wideawake
I think you've deliberately read past me. There is such a thing as a Scriptural inference, and they are drawn all the time, even by Christians who adhere to sola Scriptura. I provided a Scriptural argument - as far as I can see, to deny that we can continue to request the intercession of our fellow Christians simply because they have experienced a physical death which Christ himself explicitly came to free them from is a position which requires a Scriptural defense in and of itself. It is a legitimate matter of Scriptural debate, but I do not think I am "using" Scripture when I seek to assert Christ's sovereignty over death and the essential unity of His body, the Church. I understand that you seek to defend a doctrine of Christ's sole mediation for the believer, and that you think that the intercession of the saints undermines it. I do not think you are "using" Scripture by refusing to consider the Scriptural description of what the Church is or the full implications of Christ's triumph over death. I think that this issue is one on which their is no clear Scriptural decision for either position, but at the same time one which carries a wealth of suggestive Scriptural evidence.

This issue is weaker than the rest of the Mary issue and that is why I usually don't argue it though I think that it is very unscriptural to pray to saints. There is no scriptural precedent to do so. None at all. There is direct scriptural teaching about prayer though. It is arrogant and wrong minded to go around the scriptures and look for a reason to pray to the dead as heathens have done for centuries and say that scripture allows this. It doesn't by due to lack of precedent.

But more to the point, look at the various and sundry doctrines RC's hold about Mary. The immaculate conception, assumption, distributrix of all graces and all the many things I'm sure you've seen me post. This is the much stronger case. This case is the one that makes a true bible believing Christian realize that he is involved in a system of belief that has no basis in scripture at all. This is the doctrine that shows how the RCC "uses" scripture to invent things that are in no way biblical.

85 posted on 05/28/2003 2:26:12 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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