It's not a matter of uniformity of thought. What Warthog, Hanson and I are arguing (or maybe it's just me) is that the concept of individual rights and liberty will grow when the land and climate favours farming by small independent landholders, (Greece, Italy, Northern Europe) rather than collectivist agriculture.
I don't place all that much reverence on what Jefferson et.al said abour Greek and Roman ideals as the source.
1. The 18/19th centuries were very pro-Classical world times
2. While they may have had respect for Classical world ideals (I think Aristotle's Politics is one of the great works on government), such respect would not have found acceptance if there wasn't an instinctive understanding in the society.
As a previous poster said other cultures just don't understand what "liberty" means.
Or as P J O'Rouke said in the Forward to the British edition of Parliament of Whores "Foreigners may believe in individualism in some theoretical way, the way you and I believe in the Big Bang. But we are *individuals*".
3. And while there is evidence of revolting English commoners frequently maintaining their rights from 1066 on, there is not so much from the Classical world.
Indeed, while the Roman world succummed to an increasing tax burden without complaint, the two biggest incidents in England (1640s) and America (1770s) occurred when the populace decided that the Government was introducing illegitimate *new* taxation, which it had no right to so do.
4. What I am arguing is that the centuries of Empire in the Greek and Roman world had destroyed the concept of liberty there.
the ideas of Rome and Greece DID "die" (but strangely not in Italy and the Byzantine empire [to a much less extent than Italy]-where the ideas of representative government continued to exist and flourish,
I find the idea that the Eastern Roman Empire was in any way "representative government", well, the word Byzantine comes to mind. It was an Oriental Despotism as alien to the Western liberal democractic tradition as the Court of King Solomon.
Yes, a matter of extreme degrees here, I admit, but I have stated the same of the All-thing and other parliments in Northern Europe not funtioning as representative bodies, but more as facades for soverign rule.(and yes, you are right that they are much closer to our modern model than any other, and most did evolve back into true representative bodies-as the ones in the East died). Again thanks for the input-I currently don't have anything else to add except you will enjoy those books, they are not right on our topic, but give a good overview of that period and it's long term results. TL