Ithaca Officials Ignore FREEPER Objections

The Ithaca Journal ^ | Saturday, May 24, 2003 | LAUREN BISHOP

[Publicus]

No. I have always- and only- used Publicus.

How about you? Is "Dec31, 1999" the only name/lable you have used to post items/comments?

[Publicus]

Young Rhino:

You make some valid points. However, your opinion on THIS PARTICULAR CASE is uninformed.

THIS PARTICULAR CASE has distinguishing and unique characteristics and if you actually knew the law and had actually read the details comprising THIS PARTICULAR CASE, you would have seen for yourself that the use of eminent domain AND the use of taxpayer funds- in THIS PARTICULAR CASE- is inappropriate.

Likewise, your comparing THIS PARTICULAR CASE to others does not add to the discussion nor do your personal attacks against Freepers; who, to their great credit, instead of just whining about something, have taken- and are taking ACTION- by regularly taking a few minutes from their day and contacting the Ithaca officials involved and CLEARLY expressing their perfectly reasonable objections as taxpayers across THE MISUSE OF THEIR HARD EARNED TAXMONIES by certain Ithaca officials involved in THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

Your mocking Freepers for doing so also reminds me of those who objected to our taking ACTION to stop Saddam. Sorry, pal. Americans do NOT tolerate tyranny of ANY kind- regardless if some of the hack lawyers involved claim the harm and abuse of productive citizens is "legal". (Are you one of the lawyers involved or in any way acquainted with them?)

Remember, complying with allegedly "legal" procedures, which NO ONE was ever informed of NOR even voted for, does NOT mitigate the harm NOR the inappropriateness any more than shooting someone in the skull does and then claiming innocence for the crime because proper procedures were followed to fire the weapon.

I think we all KNOW what the meaning of the word "is" is and the fact using the cover of law to commit and conceal crimes does NOT make the crimes legal. Moreover, the use of real estate transactions is a convenient and popular method by which crooks launder ill-gotten gains and keep a few steps ahead of the Feds. The use of eminent domain makes this most convenient.

Now, with respect to your assurances that all the owners will be "fairly" compensated, the fact is the "fair" price for ANYTHING in a free society is determined SOLELY by the voluntary agreement between prospective buyers and sellers of the desired product. PERIOD. The mere suggestion that somehow a small town judge or official in Ithaca should be worshipped and bowed down to and empowered to establish market prices with commercial real estate transactions is preposterous and a notion fit for slaves NOT Americans. The Court can help decide what consitutes appropriate remedy/relief from damage one party has inflicted upon another under the law but NEVER to determine the price of goods and services of the free marketplace.

Have you forgotten what happens when bureaucrats and civil servants are allowed to "determine" the prices of goods and services? The Soviets and the Eastern Bloc countries did it for decades and look what happened to them- hint: They are STILL recovering from that disastrous- indeed monstrous- policy which did nothing but keep communist party members comparatively wealthy and controlling everybody else. (My G*d! Just like the demonrats are trying to do to the US! Another thread.)

With respect to your assurances to us that the "fair" compensation of the owners- including the widow- is forthcoming, it may surprise even you to know that although the price offered to Pine was published, there has been no mention WHATSOEVER regarding such compensatory arrangements- neither for her share NOR for Gus's. (Now why praytell my young horned padewan is that?)

Perhaps you would be willing to demonstrate your faith and to back up the words you saw fit to lecture us with and actually call the Ithaca officials involved and find out.

Better yet, start with the reporter at the Ithaca Journal and listen to what she tells you. I promise you, you will be astonished to see how little she actually knows beyond mindlessly parroting what the beneficiaries of the scam have been telling her all this time! I kid you not. Although a bunch of us roared with laughter with her "objective coverage" (a la Peter Arnett) , we were very upset across the fact she has done NO INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING OF ANY KIND despite public objections toward the use of eminent domain in THIS PARTICULAR CASE and the misuse of taxpayer funds for the proposed project.

Especially since the project involves the use of taxpayer funds, and the fact she's been "covering" the story all this time, she should be able to answer any and all of your questions . (Lauren Bishop, office: (607)-272-2321)

Oh, and while you're at it Einstein, I dare you to go ahead and ask her to give you STRAIGHT and COMPLETE answers to:

1. What EXACTLY happened with N&J Enterprises- the ORIGINAL developer of record for the proposed hotel project? What EXACTLY happened to their application for federal funds they submitted to the Ithaca Urban Renewal Agency? Did the discrepancies in the financials and/or reluctance to disclose the ACTUAL SOURCE OF CERTAIN APPLICANT'S INCOME play any role in the sudden "quiet" about it? Who EXACTLY is involved with the entity known as "Cascade" (It published a "legal notice" in the Ithaca Journal. Perhaps the name reflects the Enronesque financing scheme showing huge sums of taxpayer monies cascading right into the pockets of the parasites involved...?)

2. The proposed $28 Million dollar price tag for such a small project in tiny Ithaca is more than a bit rich since entire downtown Commons is in fact just TWO blocks with the street running between them paved over. Since substantial taxpayer monies are involved, where is the breakdown showing the ACTUAL costs of the proposed project? Where is the breakdown plainly showing WHO EXACTLY gets how much, when, and EXACTLY for what purpose? Also, several million dollars for "legal fees" for such small projects is WAY too high. Where is the substantiation for such fees? (As I am sure even you would agree, that- ESPECIALLY since taxpayer funds are involved local press should have obtained AND published these details by now.)

3. Why are certain Ithaca officials who are under glaring conflicts of interest- with personal ties to the prospective tenants of the proposed new structures- allowed to be even remotely involved with providing said tenants with tax abatements, taxpayer funded subsidies, and taxpayer monies to fund kickbacks? Ithaca officials are dutybound to comport themselves with honesty and transparency with this matter and PROTECT taxpayer monies from being misused or otherwise wasted.

4. Since the compensatory arrangements for Pine were published, what EXACTLY are the compensatory arrangements for the widow's and Gus's ownership share in the property?

Young Rhino, how I wish I could see and be able to post the expression on your face when these characters start bs'ing you and you realize just how sleazy they really are.

Also, I can only hope you are man (or woman) enough to give us an HONEST report of your experience and honestly tell us EXACTLY what Ms. Bishop and the Ithaca officials tell you with regard to the foregoing and other questions.

Good luck. We await your news.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Does anyone remember who was the "Ithica, City of Evil" guy, or is that you under a different name?

The "City of Evil" guy would be me.

And I already posted here, noting that I did not see why Pine was so upset about getting $22,000.00 more than the assessed value of the property (see post no. 3).

Unlike Publicus, who seems to have a direct line to Mr. Pine, alls I know is what I reads in the papers and the in the papers, it looks like he got an okay deal.

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

I hope you are merely stimulating the debate and being sarcastic otherwise I'm very disappointed in your response especially since you've been fighting the good fight for so long in Ithaca.

Looks like you have a few allies in the Finger Lakes region.

[Young Rhino]

Comparing me to the peaceniks who opposed the Iraq war simply because I eviscerated your 'opinion' that this deal is illegal? You're a loon.

The deal may be stupid, it may have conflicts of interest (they usually do), but nothing you have said indicates illegal use of eminent domain powers. In my former occupation as an attorney, I did dozens of these deals annually in the capacity of bond counsel. In other words, my opinion is based on actual experience financing these deals with municipal and industrial development bonds.

Nearly every party except the taxpayer makes out like a bandit in these deals. If you knew 1/10 of what goes on, you'd probably be more upset than you already are about the transaction.

However, these types of deals are done every day...and they are perfectly legal.

The solution isn't to whine and act like a loon claiming illegality. The solution is to remove the elected officials involved in the transaction.

[Jimmy Valentine]

Correct. That is why the formal legal description of ownership is called "Fee Simple Absolute".

Government has moved from exercise of eminent domain for national security or public health and safety matters to "convenience of the few" or worse as a payback to friends.

Regards,

[Jimmy Valentine]

Well, as to that here in Maryland, a local county executive "Dutch" Rupersberger, of Baltimore County was going to use eminent domain to confiscate and tear down several neighborhoods in old waterfront communities. He was then going to "sell" the properties to residential real estate developers to build new and more upscale communities.

He was blocked in his efforts by the thinnest of margins. That is an example for you of true abuse of eminent domain.

There is nothing wrong with a little tinfoil in your life.

Regards,

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks. bttt . . .

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks for sharing your inputs on this thread, folks !

[Publicus]

"Unlike Publicus, who seems to have a direct line to Mr. Pine,"


No. I do not know Pine. Myself and others are familar with hi situation and we looked into some of the details and noticed the situation is very wrong.

Instead of speculating on Pine's situation, you need to ask him what he thinks about the matter as it affects him, his family, and his community. Since you indicated that you live over there, you of all people should have been the first to stand with the guy- not passively watching.




"alls I know is what I reads in the papers and the in the papers, it looks like he got an okay deal."

I am curious to know why you don't care Ithaca officials are wasting taxpayer monies with the scam. Either you pay very little or no taxes or you are like the patient getting a DRE and not realizing the significance of the doctor's hands gripping your shoulders during the process.

Me thinks you have been "Behind Liberal Lines" for so long, you have gone native in the "City of Evil". Otherwise, please let us know why then do you call Ithaca the "City of Evil"?

[Publicus]

"Comparing me to the peaceniks who opposed the Iraq war simply because I eviscerated your 'opinion' that this deal is illegal?

I compared your refusal to make a principled stand against the harm caused in THIS PARTICULAR CASE to the peaceniks who opposed our principled stand for ACTION against Saddam and the Iraqi Baathists.



"You're a loon."

Insults do not add to the discussion. Even if I were a loon, what would that have to do with the inappropriate use of taxpayer monies and eminent domain with respect to this particular case and the threat this particular case poses to all Americans?



"The deal may be stupid,

Then WHY do you support it then?!?!?



"it may have conflicts of interest (they usually do),"

Again, WHY do you support it then?



"but nothing you have said indicates illegal use of eminent domain powers."

The use of eminent domain (and use of taxpayer monies to subsidize a private development that is not even commercially viable) is indeed inappropriate.



"In my former occupation as an attorney, I did dozens of these deals annually in the capacity of bond counsel. In other words, my opinion is based on actual experience financing these deals with municipal and industrial development bonds."

I do not wish to comment on any of the cases you worked on since I am not familiar with them. I will take your word for it that you carried out the tasks required of you in those cases in accordance to the specified procedures.



"Nearly every party except the taxpayer makes out like a bandit in these deals."

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! The Ithaca officials involved are misusing taxpayer funds and I oppose that. WHY don't you?



"If you knew 1/10 of what goes on, you'd probably be more upset than you already are about the transaction."

I am violently opposed to tyranny of ANY kind- political, legislative, or criminal (i.e. dusk to dawn curfews restricting our families' enjoyment of our public parks because muggers and rapists are allowed to lurk, etc.)



"However, these types of deals are done every day...and they are perfectly legal."

Look, I am sure when you were involved with eminent domain deals you made sure the procedural checklist was complied with. But the fact remains the misuse of taxpayer funds and eminent domain- in THIS PARTICULAR CASE- is inappropriate.

If you check out the details of this case, you will see this for yourself- and given your experience with such issues I am sure you will detect the issues very quickly.



"The solution isn't to whine"

Oh, I never whine. Sound the alarm against an injustice, yes. Take action against those who terrorize innocent people, yes. Passively whine, no.



"and act like a loon claiming illegality."

There is a difference between complying with legal procedures and justice. Sadly, the separation between the two is growing and if we do not take action, this growing separation does not bode well for our future.



"The solution is to remove the elected officials involved in the transaction."

Ah, you didn't notice. First, the damage is being done NOW. Elections are many months away and will do nothing to stop the harm being caused NOW.

Also, A good portion of the officials involved with the scam have recently and "coincidentally" declared their decision NOT to run for re-election anyway. (How conveeenient! They make the mess, get their "cut" and prance off to G*d knows where leaving the taxpayers footing the costs for YEARS to come!)

Of course, the unelected civil servants involved with the scam will continue to mooch off productive Americans and raise our tax burdens to pay for their raises and benefits packages in exchange for their doing even less work on behalf of the citizens who pay them.

Look, as an attorney you have been well trained to investigate and analyze situations. You have claimed extensive experience as an officer of the Court.

Rather than casting insults against me and other "looney" Freepers, why don't you go ahead and call Lauren Bishop, (office: 607-272-2321) and watch what happens when you ask her to tell you:

1. What EXACTLY happened with N&J Enterprises- the ORIGINAL developer of record for the proposed hotel project? What EXACTLY happened to their application for federal funds they submitted to the Ithaca Urban Renewal Agency? Did the discrepancies in the financials and/or reluctance to disclose the ACTUAL SOURCE OF CERTAIN APPLICANT'S INCOME play any role in the sudden "quiet" about it? Who EXACTLY is involved with the entity known as "Cascade" (It published a "legal notice" in the Ithaca Journal. Perhaps the name reflects the Enronesque financing scheme showing huge sums of taxpayer monies cascading right into the pockets of the parasites involved...?)

2. The proposed $28 Million dollar price tag for such a small project in tiny Ithaca is more than a bit rich since the entire downtown Commons is in fact just TWO blocks with the street running between them paved over. Since substantial taxpayer monies are involved, where is the breakdown showing the ACTUAL costs of the proposed project? Where is the breakdown plainly showing WHO EXACTLY gets how much, when, and EXACTLY for what purpose? Also, several million dollars for "legal fees" for such small projects is WAY too high. Where is the substantiation for such fees? (As I am sure even you would agree, that- ESPECIALLY since taxpayer funds are involved- local press should have obtained AND published these details by now.)

3. Why are certain Ithaca officials who are under glaring conflicts of interest- with personal ties to the prospective tenants and other beneficiaries of the proposed new structures- allowed to be even remotely involved with providing said tenants with tax abatements, taxpayer funded subsidies, and taxpayer monies to fund kickbacks? Ithaca officials are dutybound to comport themselves with honesty and transparency with this matter and PROTECT taxpayer monies from being misused or otherwise wasted.

4. Since the compensatory arrangements for Pine were published and since taxpayer monies are involved, what EXACTLY are the compensatory arrangements for the widow's and Gus's ownership share in the property?

Go ahead and see for yourself. I GUARANTEE you that you will be very surprised. Who knows, you just might even realize why a growing number are upset about this situation and the threat it poses to all Amercans and join our ranks.

[Publicus]

"Freedom at it's fullest is individual "fee simple" ownership of real property.
Ask yourself ... Why is it that the term "fee simple" is seldom heard anymore?
It's because "fee simple" means .... "Absolute ownership (of land) with unrestricted rights of disposition."


Actually, even one who thinks he/she "owns" property, the fact is if that property is taxed, he/she is in fact a tenant of the government's.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

I am curious to know why you don't care Ithaca officials are wasting taxpayer monies with the scam.

I have pointed out my concern about this as a taxpayer in the past. My question is simply whether Pine is fellow victim or a beneficiary of this deal.

[Publicus]

"I have pointed out my concern about this as a taxpayer in the past."

With all due respect, that's as good as doing nothing. As an American taxpayer, your have EVERY right to instruct YOUR civil servants NOT to waste YOUR money on pork barrel and other wasteful items. You need to point out your PRESENT concerns to your local officials PRESENTLY.




>My question is simply whether Pine is fellow victim or a beneficiary of this deal.

When our civil servants betray their duty and misuse public office to enrich themselves, we are ALL victims and at risk regardless whether some of some us realize this or not.

[Publicus]

Have any of you guys called the reporter covering the story? Lauren Bishop, (office: 607-272-2321)

If so, what did she tell you in response to the questions seeking HONEST answers with regard to the use of taxpayer funds?

1. What EXACTLY happened with N&J Enterprises- the ORIGINAL developer of record for the proposed hotel project? What EXACTLY happened to their application for federal funds they submitted to the Ithaca Urban Renewal Agency? Did the discrepancies in the financials and/or reluctance to disclose the ACTUAL SOURCE OF CERTAIN APPLICANT'S INCOME play any role in the sudden "quiet" about it? Who EXACTLY is involved with the entity known as "Cascade" (It published a "legal notice" in the Ithaca Journal. Perhaps the name reflects the Enronesque financing scheme showing huge sums of taxpayer monies cascading right into the pockets of the parasites involved...?)

2. The proposed $28 Million dollar price tag for such a small project in tiny Ithaca is more than a bit rich since the entire downtown Commons is in fact just TWO blocks with the street running between them paved over. Since substantial taxpayer monies are involved, where is the breakdown showing the ACTUAL costs of the proposed project? Where is the breakdown plainly showing WHO EXACTLY gets how much, when, and EXACTLY for what purpose? Also, several million dollars for "legal fees" for such small projects is WAY too high. Where is the substantiation for such fees? (As I am sure even you would agree, that- ESPECIALLY since taxpayer funds are involved- local press should have obtained AND published these details by now.)

3. Why are certain Ithaca officials who are under glaring conflicts of interest- with personal ties to the prospective tenants and other beneficiaries of the proposed new structures- allowed to be even remotely involved with providing said tenants with tax abatements, taxpayer funded subsidies, and taxpayer monies to fund kickbacks? Ithaca officials are dutybound to comport themselves with honesty and transparency with this matter and PROTECT taxpayer monies from being misused or otherwise wasted.

4. Since the compensatory arrangements for Pine were published and since taxpayer monies are involved, what EXACTLY are the compensatory arrangements for the widow's and Gus's ownership share in the property?

[MeekOneGOP]

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Since the compensatory arrangements for Pine were published and since taxpayer monies are involved, what EXACTLY are the compensatory arrangements for the widow's and Gus's ownership share in the property?

Do you know the answer?
If so, why not simply tell us?
If not, why not file a "Freedom of Information Law" request and tell us?

I'm no expert in journalism but I doubt reporters are there to answer phoned in questions from the public. THey are there to cover and print stories in their newspapers.

IF you have information that will break this open, share it. DOn't just raise rumor and innuendo without documentation.

[Publicus]

"I'm no expert in journalism but I doubt reporters are there to answer phoned in questions from the public. THey are there to cover and print stories in their newspapers."


Helloooo?!?!? It's a reporter's JOB to find out the facts BEFORE publishing stories. Ask the New York Times.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Helloooo?!?!? It's a reporter's JOB to find out the facts BEFORE publishing stories. Ask the New York Times.

Your point was not that we should call the reporter to give her information (assuming we had any to give). Your point was that we should call her and ask information. Not the same thing.

I repeat. If you have information. Give it to the reporter and/or post it here with attribution. Don't ask questions like the narrator in a 1930s movie serial.

[Publicus]

Since public funds are involved, the Ithaca officials involved need to answer the questions.

As I am sure you agree, it is up to the press to also ask the questions and independently investigate a story- not just parrot press releases.