Are whites cleverer than blacks?

The Spectator - UK ^ | May 24, 2003 | Sean Thomas

[mhking]

Ability is there across the board. Now desire is another matter altogether. And that is something that is learned and nurtured (or not as the case may be). Quiet as it is kept, that is a function of how an individual is raised.

If that individual is raised in an environment where education is stressed, achievement is desired, and ultimately is the norm. When it is not stressed (as it sadly is not among many of my urban-oriented bretheren, both black AND white), you get the apathy and blame-whitey attitude that permeates urban America (which, not coincidentally is lauded by the left).

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

[Maria S]

"It's true enough that IQ by itself is not enough for a lot of endeavors, but it's also true that there are many endeavors that absolutely require a certain level of IQ."

I've YET to figure out "Ulysses"!

Is someone who understand exactly what it DOES mean smarter than my mechanic, who can take apart any engine blindfolded and put it back together? Is the Ulysses-type smart as smart as the farm wife who makes most of her family's clothes and plants and grows most of their veggies? All other things being equal, who will survive longest?

[AlbionGirl]

You're absolutely right.

Hitler may have been a good brinksman, but what did that really take when your fellow brinksmen were the likes of Chamberlain and Deladier (sp?)? Not much I think.

But he really was stupid just as Mussolini was; just read a little of Mein Kampf, if you already haven't and if you can stomach it. Hitler's human insight was good, that much Kampf makes clear, and I'm sure that probably helped him. But what helped him the most was that by the time he took the Chancellory the economy in Germany was so degraded that a person's life savings couldn't buy them a bag of carrots.

Hitler's stupidity can be illustrated by his edict to disallow the incorporation of 'Jewish Physics' in any apt endeavor. Yeah, that was smart, WHAT AN INBRED, LOSER!

There is a kind of karma in Hitler's arrogance though, and that is that it did him in, just like Clinton's did him in. Mind you I'm not comparing Clinton and Shicklegruber in any aspect other than their arrogance.

I don't believe the info posted earlier which claimed that around the time of WWII the IQ of Jewish people was 20 points or so lower. It's as you say, Hitler hated the Jewish population because they were superior intellectually, culturally and spiritually, not only to the lower Germans but also to the so called Upper.

[AlbionGirl]

I'm not sure, but I think the studies in the Bell Curve indicated that there were far more men in the genius category than women, and far more men in the mentally retarded category than women, but in that huge lump in the middle there was parity.

[JustPiper]

That was to be my question if cleverer was even a word ;)

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

clever (klèv´er) adjective
cleverer, cleverest
1. Mentally quick and original; bright.
2. Nimble with the hands or body; dexterous.
3. Exhibiting quick-wittedness: a clever story.
4. New England. Easily managed; docile: "Oxen must be pretty clever to be bossed around the way they are" (Dialect Notes).
5. New England. Affable but not especially smart.
6. Chiefly Southern U.S. Good-natured; amiable. See Regional Note at ugly.

[Middle English cliver; akin to East Frisian klifer, klüfer, perhaps from klúfen, to gnaw apart, work assiduously, of Low German origin; akin to Old Saxon klioban, to split, cleave.]
- clev´erly adverb
- clev´erness noun

Synonyms: clever, ingenious, shrewd. These adjectives are compared as they refer to mental adroitness or to practical ingenuity and skill. Clever, the most comprehensive, stresses mental quickness or adeptness: "If I ever felt inclined to be timid as I was going into a room full of people, I would say to myself, 'You're the cleverest member of one of the cleverest families in the cleverest class of the cleverest nation in the world, why should you be frightened?'" (Beatrice Webb). Ingenious implies originality and inventiveness: "an ingenious solution to the storage problem" (Linda Greider). Shrewd emphasizes mental astuteness and practical understanding: "a woman of shrewd intellect and masculine character" (Leslie Stephen).

Regional Note: In the 17th and 18th centuries, in addition to its basic sense of "able to use the brain readily and effectively," the word clever acquired a constellation of imprecise but generally positive senses in regional British speech: "clean-limbed and handsome," "neat and convenient to use," and "of an agreeable disposition." Some of these British regional senses, brought over when America was colonized, are still found in American regional speech, as in the South, where clever can mean "good-natured, amiable," in old-fashioned speech. The speech of New England extends the meaning "good-natured" to animals in the specific sense of "easily managed, docile." Perhaps it was the association with animals that gave rise to another meaning, "affable but not especially smart," applicable to people when used in old-fashioned New England dialects.

Word History: Being too clever is thought to be unwise, and support for this popular notion may be afforded by the fact that the devil seems to have been the first "clever" one in English. The source of our word clever is probably the Middle English word cliver, recorded only once in a work written before 1250, in which it is said that the devil is "cliver on sinnes." This means something like "skillful in respect to sins." Cliver probably goes back to the Indo-European root gleubh-, "to cut, cleave." Although the intermediate ancestry of cliver is unclear, the semantic connection has to do with penetration or incisiveness-that is, cutting through to the heart of the matter, just as a woodcarver cuts through material in order to realize a certain vision.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

OK, what's wrong with the old-fashioned idea of treating people as individuals rather than members of racial or gender identity groups?

[Dog Gone]

There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation.

Is that really true? My personal observation is there must be a genetic interpretation. Otherwise, I'm hard pressed to explain why children of intelligent parents also tend to score high on IQ tests.

Something is being passed on to the kids and if it's not genetic, what is it? And why can an otherwise family of intelligent people have one odd duck who isn't smart, or why can the kid of average parents be a genius compared to his otherwise average siblings? That tends to rule out an environmental cause.

I find it interesting that IQ is improving among some groups. That indicates that some external factor has changed to allow more intelligent children to be born.

That certainly needs to be explored.

The truth is that we don't understand intelligence and why some people are smarter than others. They just are. While we haven't found an IQ gene, there is something there which affects the hardwiring, and it's real.

As far as the difference between races, it's not really a disputable fact, but it's only good as a generalization. Each of us, if we are honest, can name several, and probably numerous, people from each race who are unquestionably more intelligent than we are.

And a final point in this disjointed ramble of mine. In a few thousand years, and probably much sooner than that, the various races may not even exist to compare. Races were born out of geographical isolation and little interaction with distant peoples. In the modern world with easy global travel and an increasing number of mixed marriages, the percentage of individuals who a "pure" race will continue to decline. That will certainly accelerate in the future as third world nations modernize and become wealthy.

Then this whole discussion will be moot.

[Dog Gone]

Dang, I hate it when I write a thread-killer.

[Victoria Delsoul]

If that individual is raised in an environment where education is stressed, achievement is desired, and ultimately is the norm. When it is not stressed (as it sadly is not among many of my urban-oriented bretheren, both black AND white), you get the apathy and blame-whitey attitude that permeates urban America (which, not coincidentally is lauded by the left).

Agreed.

[Snerfling]

I don't believe the info posted earlier which claimed that around the time of WWII the IQ of Jewish people was 20 points or so lower.

That has always been patently absurb. From 1905 to 1935 (and thru today), the Jews built one of the most profitable enterprises of the 20th century: the entertainment business (movies, radio, tv, music).

[SauronOfMordor]

"Professional class" is relative. Among the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

This is true to an extent. An IQ-90 doctor ministering to IQ-60 people will probably not have them notice that he's killing a large number of them with mis-diagnosis, but an IQ-90 civil engineer will have a more difficult time having them not notice that his buildings fall down

[stand watie]

this opinion is NOT exclusive to BLACKS.

my RED brothers/sisters all too frequently share that same problem.

when i went to grad school long ago, i got a LOT of "flack" from other REDmen/women for "acting white" AND i was called an "apple", i.e., RED on the outside & white inside. wasn't true, but what can you do???

just do the best i could and "continue to march".

FRee dixie,sw