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US slob 'framed' Col. Tim
The Sun ^ | June 22, 2003 | NEIL SYSON and JOHN KAY

Posted on 05/22/2003 7:49:44 PM PDT by arjay

THE arrogant US Army major who accused Colonel Tim Collins of war crimes in Iraq was taking REVENGE — after the Brit hero had told him to stand to attention properly.

Witnesses said the tobacco-chewing American had shrugged at Col Collins, 43, and said with a sneer: “Oh, yeah, fine.”

Former SAS man Col Collins was furious at the major’s disrespectful attitude toward a senior officer and had him arrested for insubordination.

Then he humiliated the yank by making him stand ramrod straight for 45 minutes while British squaddies walked past, trying to stifle their sniggers.

It is believed the US officer suffered further humiliation when he was demoted by his superiors. He subsequently filed rumours that were circulating which alleged Col Collins had fired weapons needlessly and assaulted Iraqis.

The pair clashed when the colonel saw the major dishing out sweets and rations to children near the British HQ in southern Iraq.

Col Collins told him to stop and said he had banned such practices on safety grounds.

But the major replied: “You do your job and I will do mine.”

The colonel hit the roof and gave him a withering dressing down.

Another British officer said: “Col Collins had banned us all from throwing sweets out of our vehicles, or handing them out on patrol, because he wanted all food distribution to be controlled and organised.

“He did not want the locals being treated like animals and in the pandemonium that it caused a kid could easily have fallen under the wheels of a vehicle.

“One day this US major turned up and started dishing out sweets to kids outside a school.

“He wasn’t even supposed to be in the area. He was part of a CIMIC team, which is a civil-military cooperation providing aid, food and water to surrounding towns.”

Other soldiers witnessed the confrontation.

One squaddie said: Col Collins asked him who he was and what he was doing. The major explained himself.

Col Collins said, ‘This is my area of responsibility. I’ve put a ban on this. It is not good for security and I don’t want the locals treated in this way. They have pride’.

Word has gone round that the US major was heard to say, ‘You do your job and I will do mine’.

Majors do not speak to colonels like that. The colonel apparently blew his top and stormed: ‘Do you realise who you are talking to? This is Col Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment. Stand to attention when I’m talking to you’.

The US major stood up in a sloppy, disrespectful manner while saying ‘yeah, fine,’ instead of snapping to attention. At that point Col Collins got angry and ordered a sergeant major to arrest him for insubordination.

Back at HQ it was hilarious, with this American standing upright and the British soldiers filing past wondering what was going on.

After three-quarters of an hour a high-ranking US Army officer turned up. He went in to meet Col Collins, who explained why the major was under arrest.

The Brit soldiers who saw him thought he was a bit of a prat. He was in his late 30s or early 40s and about 5ft 8in. He was chewing tobacco and looked like a bit of a redneck. We were all chuckling behind his back.

I would not say it’s never been done before but for a commander to arrest someone like this and humiliate him in this way is unusual.

Hero's welcome ... liberated Iraqis hail Col Collins in Al Amara After “apologies all round” the Americans took away the major to discipline him themselves.

Weeks later he filed a series of claims that father-of-five Col Collins contravened the Geneva Convention.

Allegations include that he pistol-whipped an Iraqi civic leader and intimidated civilians by firing at their feet.

The source added: “There were a lot of rumours flying around about Col Collins.

“We don’t know how the US major got hold of them, but he reported them to his bosses who got straight on to the Ministry of Defence.

“It was a spiteful, vengeful act against the commander but I believe he will brush off the complaints.

“He is a fantastic leader — strong but fair — who loved the Iraqi people.”

Inspirational Col Collins won international fame and praise with his Shakespearean-style speech to his troops just before the attack on Iraq.

The address was admired by Prince Charles and President George Bush.

A soldier who served under the colonel for three years likened him yesterday to the boss of all-conquering Manchester United.

He said: “He is a winner, the Alex Ferguson of the Army. People might not like him but he is the best.”

The former Royal Irish Regiment ranger said Collins — then a major — was his commander in C Company, based at Catterick, North Yorks, from March 1997 to November 1999.

“He was tough and his methods were ruthless but he got the job done.

“He was very precise and wouldn’t tolerate any slackness or lack of ability.”

Last night senior officers confirmed the version of events given to The Sun by the officer who worked closely with Col Collins.

One said: “This is exactly what we have been told happened. We hope Col Collins will be cleared but we have to investigate every aspect of the allegations.

“The fact an investigation is being undertaken demonstrates only that we are establishing the facts. It does not indicate or imply that any judgement has been made.”

The Sun has checked the identity of our informants, and verified the accuracy of what they told us.

But they have asked us not to name them for fear of disciplinary action under the Official Secrets Act.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: britain; iraq; revenge; timcollins
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To: faithincowboys
He had that Hillary/ Marie Antoinette complex.

Douglas MacArthur

81 posted on 05/22/2003 10:00:30 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Stan Cross, Marcia Hines, Mel Gibson: if we can pry them away from you, they're ours!)
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To: Oztrich Boy
Yeah he did, but Montgomery was unique.

MacArthur was a diva to be sure, but he was right more often than Monty!
82 posted on 05/22/2003 10:03:22 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: Teetop
Well, I'm thinking the Baath party member's testimony can pretty much be discounted!
83 posted on 05/22/2003 10:05:15 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: Lancey Howard
4 years enlisted reserve Marines through college,
21 years Naval Officer, Bigger mouth.

I believe what the sseonel did was just, if true. Hell, I saw WM's do even worse at PI.

84 posted on 05/22/2003 10:07:27 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Lancey Howard
I have no idea what Puller would have done, I would not dare to speak for him. You have your opinion; I have mine.
85 posted on 05/22/2003 10:09:14 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Teetop
Hmmmm, after reading all those articles it looks like some of the British MOD found the Col a threat and have started spreading some rumors about the guy to keep him from getting too much attention. Funny how the stories changed from a bunch of reservists, to Iraqi civic leaders, to "un-named military sources" and now some American "slob"
86 posted on 05/22/2003 10:09:23 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: faithincowboys
This guy is sounds like Frank Burns, he loves throwing his rank around; a little to gung-ho.

Did you see all the complaints against this Brit? A kid committed suicide under his command because of his hard-a** tactics. Doesn't sound like a good officer to me. One of the British papers had a list of complaints and solicited more. Just wait a few days, this picture will become more clear, soon.

I think your correct on this f,i,c.b's.
87 posted on 05/22/2003 10:10:27 PM PDT by Finalapproach29er ("Don't shoot Mongo, you'll only make him mad.")
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To: Pukin Dog
I believe this article is a crock. Why?

The Brits couldn't have done squat without support from the major's commander. When I was an Air Liaison Officer (ALO) - a Captain - I on several occassions answered an Army Colonel in like manner. Nothing happened to me. Why? My chain of command did not run through the Army Brigade Commander - and I was holding true to the orders of my USAF commander. The Colonel didn't have to like what I said - but if he jumped in my chili I responded strongly enough to make my point.

A few Colonels didn't much like me, although one of the ones I argued with gave me an Army Commendation medal eventually - he was actually an excelllent leader who finally figured out I knew what I was talking about.

The article also said the major was demoted. Unless he was brought up on formal charges, he couldn't be reduced in rank. I doubt his disrespect rose to the level of a formal court-martial & reduction in rank. This is very rare in officer circles - an Article 15 maybe, but I've been far more disrespectful to my own commanders on occassion with no trouble.

I'm not saying the major was right - if I were his boss I'd chew his @ss hard - this is not the attitude to have in a combat zone. One difference is that when I've bumped heads with my superiors, I've had regs or written orders backing me up. But we also don't need a bunch of shrinking violet majors unwilling to speak their mind to superiors.

88 posted on 05/22/2003 10:11:43 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: McGavin999
That's what I thought too. None of us knows crap about what actually went on, the "inquiry" should straighten most of the crap away. It's in the media now, so they won't be able to just sweep it under the rug as easily.
89 posted on 05/22/2003 10:13:54 PM PDT by Teetop (Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.)
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To: Pukin Dog
21 years Naval Officer, Bigger mouth.

I believe what the sseonel did was just, if true.

If you think this bully was "just" in what he did then I'm glad you went Navy, Admiral.

90 posted on 05/22/2003 10:17:29 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Mr Rogers
I have no idea whether the story is true or not, but if it is; I maintain that the Major was out of line. The event is probably not old enough for the Major to have been reduced in rank so soon, but it could happen, you know that.

What I do know is that Rummy and his boys (for good reason) have no patience with any nonsense coming from the Army these days. At the same time Col.Collins has a spotless and exemplary record.

We will just have to see how this all works out.

91 posted on 05/22/2003 10:18:46 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Finalapproach29er
Yeah, I think I am too.

Earlier in this thread, someone linked to the rousing speech Col. Collins gave on the eve of the ground war.

The article about the speech contained a picture of Collins with a (looked like) a thin cigar in his mouth, and needless to say, he looks like a raging narcissistic asshole.
92 posted on 05/22/2003 10:20:03 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: Lancey Howard
Only a Commander, pal. If you have such little regard for the UCMJ, then your six years may have been too many. A proper order is followed. Not debated, not ignored. You don't like it, you take it up AFTER you carry it out, unless you believe the order to be IMPROPER. Or did you miss that? You have a good evening.

93 posted on 05/22/2003 10:23:27 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Mr Rogers
I had an incident once in the Air Force. A First Lt. tried to tell me what my job was in a rather forceful manner, his WSO (weapons systems officer), a Captain said, "who the hell do you think sets our training mission flight levels?" The First Lt. said, "surely not a two striper?!" The Captain said, "would you like to fly into something anytime soon, because he CAN make it happen!" I never had another problem with that First Lt.! (The Captain told me later that the guy was a just out of flight school & thought he knew everything and that "clipped" his ego some.)
94 posted on 05/22/2003 10:24:51 PM PDT by Teetop (Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.)
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To: Pukin Dog
Valid points. Just think the article smells funny. In any case, the major was wrong, if he did as accused - but the Colonel's behavior would be equally wrong, IMHO. And I cannot imagine this going to court-martial - not unless the major was far more aggressive than described. Just sounds like the Brits running down Americans without regard for the facts - something the British press has been good at lately.
95 posted on 05/22/2003 10:25:47 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: GATOR NAVY
I can imagine when a G.I. is placed under the command of a foreign officer then obedience would be required. Plus I do imagine that ordinary military courtesy is required towards allied officers. It would be a little strange-feeling wise-as we take an oath to our constitution not to another government. Thanks to all for the response to my question.
96 posted on 05/23/2003 5:43:05 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (Further, the statement assumed)
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To: faithincowboys
"wasn't kissing his ring"? I doubt it, but whatever, the MAJ had a duty to show respect to the COL, even if only to keep his mouth shut.
97 posted on 05/23/2003 6:57:21 AM PDT by katze
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To: ztiworoh
Thanks for posting the speech I previousy had not read.
98 posted on 05/23/2003 7:00:21 AM PDT by katze
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To: meenie
If I'm reading correctly, the MAJ is part of a Civil Affairs Group--could well have many Liberals involved, since much of their responsibility is "feel good" stuff that Liberals like so well; OTOH, the CAG people do often provide needed and important assistance.
99 posted on 05/23/2003 7:04:27 AM PDT by katze
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To: Let's Roll
Another possibility--the Brits, most other military, wear their rank differently than US officers; unless COL Collins was wearing an "eagle", perhaps the major didn't recognize his rank, and once he knew was too dumb to keep his mouth shut.
100 posted on 05/23/2003 7:08:36 AM PDT by katze
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