US slob 'framed' Col. Tim

The Sun ^ | June 22, 2003 | NEIL SYSON and JOHN KAY

[Oztrich Boy]

He had that Hillary/ Marie Antoinette complex.

Douglas MacArthur

[faithincowboys]

Yeah he did, but Montgomery was unique.

MacArthur was a diva to be sure, but he was right more often than Monty!

[faithincowboys]

Well, I'm thinking the Baath party member's testimony can pretty much be discounted!

[Pukin Dog]

4 years enlisted reserve Marines through college,
21 years Naval Officer, Bigger mouth.

I believe what the sseonel did was just, if true. Hell, I saw WM's do even worse at PI.

[Pukin Dog]

I have no idea what Puller would have done, I would not dare to speak for him. You have your opinion; I have mine.

[McGavin999]

Hmmmm, after reading all those articles it looks like some of the British MOD found the Col a threat and have started spreading some rumors about the guy to keep him from getting too much attention. Funny how the stories changed from a bunch of reservists, to Iraqi civic leaders, to "un-named military sources" and now some American "slob"

[Finalapproach29er]

This guy is sounds like Frank Burns, he loves throwing his rank around; a little to gung-ho.

Did you see all the complaints against this Brit? A kid committed suicide under his command because of his hard-a** tactics. Doesn't sound like a good officer to me. One of the British papers had a list of complaints and solicited more. Just wait a few days, this picture will become more clear, soon.

I think your correct on this f,i,c.b's.

[Mr Rogers]

I believe this article is a crock. Why?

The Brits couldn't have done squat without support from the major's commander. When I was an Air Liaison Officer (ALO) - a Captain - I on several occassions answered an Army Colonel in like manner. Nothing happened to me. Why? My chain of command did not run through the Army Brigade Commander - and I was holding true to the orders of my USAF commander. The Colonel didn't have to like what I said - but if he jumped in my chili I responded strongly enough to make my point.

A few Colonels didn't much like me, although one of the ones I argued with gave me an Army Commendation medal eventually - he was actually an excelllent leader who finally figured out I knew what I was talking about.

The article also said the major was demoted. Unless he was brought up on formal charges, he couldn't be reduced in rank. I doubt his disrespect rose to the level of a formal court-martial & reduction in rank. This is very rare in officer circles - an Article 15 maybe, but I've been far more disrespectful to my own commanders on occassion with no trouble.

I'm not saying the major was right - if I were his boss I'd chew his @ss hard - this is not the attitude to have in a combat zone. One difference is that when I've bumped heads with my superiors, I've had regs or written orders backing me up. But we also don't need a bunch of shrinking violet majors unwilling to speak their mind to superiors.

[Teetop]

That's what I thought too. None of us knows crap about what actually went on, the "inquiry" should straighten most of the crap away. It's in the media now, so they won't be able to just sweep it under the rug as easily.

[Lancey Howard]

21 years Naval Officer, Bigger mouth.

I believe what the sseonel did was just, if true.

If you think this bully was "just" in what he did then I'm glad you went Navy, Admiral.

[Pukin Dog]

I have no idea whether the story is true or not, but if it is; I maintain that the Major was out of line. The event is probably not old enough for the Major to have been reduced in rank so soon, but it could happen, you know that.

What I do know is that Rummy and his boys (for good reason) have no patience with any nonsense coming from the Army these days. At the same time Col.Collins has a spotless and exemplary record.

We will just have to see how this all works out.

[faithincowboys]

Yeah, I think I am too.

Earlier in this thread, someone linked to the rousing speech Col. Collins gave on the eve of the ground war.

The article about the speech contained a picture of Collins with a (looked like) a thin cigar in his mouth, and needless to say, he looks like a raging narcissistic asshole.

[Pukin Dog]

Only a Commander, pal. If you have such little regard for the UCMJ, then your six years may have been too many. A proper order is followed. Not debated, not ignored. You don't like it, you take it up AFTER you carry it out, unless you believe the order to be IMPROPER. Or did you miss that? You have a good evening.

[Teetop]

I had an incident once in the Air Force. A First Lt. tried to tell me what my job was in a rather forceful manner, his WSO (weapons systems officer), a Captain said, "who the hell do you think sets our training mission flight levels?" The First Lt. said, "surely not a two striper?!" The Captain said, "would you like to fly into something anytime soon, because he CAN make it happen!" I never had another problem with that First Lt.! (The Captain told me later that the guy was a just out of flight school & thought he knew everything and that "clipped" his ego some.)

[Mr Rogers]

Valid points. Just think the article smells funny. In any case, the major was wrong, if he did as accused - but the Colonel's behavior would be equally wrong, IMHO. And I cannot imagine this going to court-martial - not unless the major was far more aggressive than described. Just sounds like the Brits running down Americans without regard for the facts - something the British press has been good at lately.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

I can imagine when a G.I. is placed under the command of a foreign officer then obedience would be required. Plus I do imagine that ordinary military courtesy is required towards allied officers. It would be a little strange-feeling wise-as we take an oath to our constitution not to another government. Thanks to all for the response to my question.

[katze]

"wasn't kissing his ring"? I doubt it, but whatever, the MAJ had a duty to show respect to the COL, even if only to keep his mouth shut.

[katze]

Thanks for posting the speech I previousy had not read.

[katze]

If I'm reading correctly, the MAJ is part of a Civil Affairs Group--could well have many Liberals involved, since much of their responsibility is "feel good" stuff that Liberals like so well; OTOH, the CAG people do often provide needed and important assistance.

[katze]

Another possibility--the Brits, most other military, wear their rank differently than US officers; unless COL Collins was wearing an "eagle", perhaps the major didn't recognize his rank, and once he knew was too dumb to keep his mouth shut.