Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Spy Machine of DARPA's Dreams (Big Brother's Big Brother)
Wired News ^ | May 20, 2003 | Noah Shachtman

Posted on 05/20/2003 10:37:39 AM PDT by FreeRadical

Edited on 06/29/2004 7:09:52 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

It's a memory aid! A robotic assistant! An epidemic detector! An all-seeing, ultra-intrusive spying program!

The Pentagon is about to embark on a stunningly ambitious research project designed to gather every conceivable bit of information about a person's life, index all the information and make it searchable.


(Excerpt) Read more at wired.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; darpa; internet; privacy; privacylist; techindex
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-54 next last
Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: FreeRadical
AAAAHHHHHHHH THE SKY IS FALLING!!! AAAAAAHHHHHHH
2 posted on 05/20/2003 10:40:59 AM PDT by VaBthang4 (Could someone show me one [1] Loserdopian elected to the federal government?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VaBthang4
Yes VaBthang4, that's right. The readers of FR are so stupid that they'll never consider the disturbing facts of an article so long as you come along and act like Chicken Little.

In fact your stellar performance has so disturbed my train of thought, I can't even remember what the article was about. Good job, keep up the good work.

3 posted on 05/20/2003 10:46:06 AM PDT by freeeee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: VaBthang4; freeeee
Well, this is an interesting way to begin a thread.
4 posted on 05/20/2003 10:55:44 AM PDT by FreeRadical (GunDealers.com -- Because some people are better than others)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
They could build a giant matrix to store the interactions of individuals information for cross reference reports on who you met or interacted with. Then they could use it to determine what you would do next or who you would most likely meet or where you would most likely be at a certain time. Then they could create generalized patterns of behavior to determine the type of person you are. Then they could conduct experiments to see how they could change that pattern of behavior. (Q: who is "they"? A: I don't know, but they aren't benevolent.)
5 posted on 05/20/2003 11:04:29 AM PDT by muskogee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
DARPA already is planning to track all of an individual's "transactional data" -- like what we buy

First of all, exactly how is the Pentagon going to acquire this data? If you pay cash, no data trail. If you pay with a credit card, the only information available is the store, the date and the amount of the purchase. How is purchase-level data going to be captured and transmitted?

And second, the Pentagon can't even keep track of its civilian contractors. How the heck does it expect to create a multi-petabyte database with a data collection structure far more complicated than anything currently in existence?

6 posted on 05/20/2003 11:04:47 AM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
Osama bin Laden's agent takes a walk around the block at 10 each morning, buys a bagel and a newspaper at the corner store and then calls his mother.

A bagel?? Not likely.

Otherwise, a thought-provoking read. Although it doesn't seem possible that DARPA can accumulate the data necessary for this scheme, they think they can. Hmmmmm...

7 posted on 05/20/2003 11:15:41 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (http://c-pol.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
If the government profiles only certain groups (like at the airport), then the supposed objective of the project is doomed from the start. However, "Terrorism" could be the bogeyman that justifies the government keeping the populace "in line".
8 posted on 05/20/2003 11:15:54 AM PDT by TexasRepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
If you pay cash, no data trail.

Just go paperless. Infrastructure and consumer conditioning are proceeding quickly.

If you pay with a credit card, the only information available is the store, the date and the amount of the purchase.

That's the easiest one to solve. Just pass a law. With a stroke of the pen, gvoernment can force credit card/debit companies and retailers to record and report all transaction data.

How the heck does it expect to create a multi-petabyte database with a data collection structure far more complicated than anything currently in existence?

Tax you to pay smart people to solve the problem of how to spy on you.

Logistics will not pose a permanent barrier to this. Technical problems will be solved with enough time, additional laws and tax expenditures. It's only our willingness to place liberty over security that can stop this. Sadly, Americans no longer possess that trait. They'll submit to this and most of them won't even be bothered to know about it.

The Founders wasted their time.

9 posted on 05/20/2003 11:17:01 AM PDT by freeeee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: freeeee
Sounds like a good idea to do some research (I think that's the "R" in DARPA, to see if something's feasible before wasting a lot of time arguing about whether it's advisable.
10 posted on 05/20/2003 11:20:31 AM PDT by Dilbert56
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert56
Sounds like a good idea to do some research (I think that's the "R" in DARPA, to see if something's feasible before wasting a lot of time arguing about whether it's advisable.

Government programs take on a life of their own once they get sufficient momentum. Even the most useless of them are nearly impossible to kill once entrenched. The only chance there is (and it is very slim) to stop this program is to kill it while it's still just a sparkle in some megalomaniac's eye.

11 posted on 05/20/2003 11:26:34 AM PDT by freeeee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: freeeee
Logistics will not pose a permanent barrier to this. Technical problems will be solved with enough time, additional laws and tax expenditures.

Let's see. The IRS can't even successfully implement systems where almost all the data they recieve has a common key (SSN, Tax ID). The Pentagon can't even keep track of their own contractors. The closest thing to TIA is a large direct marketing database - that is so poor at modelling that they are estatic with a two-percent response rate. The feds can dream about this system all they want, but the raw truth is that the best systems people in the private sector couldn't create this beast, let alone the feds with their sorry systems implementation record - and creating the ability to capture item purchase level data on every point of sale system in the country, along with the data feeds from 20 million businsesses to TIA, would be an IT project that would absolutely DWARF the Y2K preparations.

That and the minor detail that congress has put some serious chains on TIA lately.

12 posted on 05/20/2003 11:27:39 AM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
Be sure to name this system "SkyNet" !
13 posted on 05/20/2003 11:28:54 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freeeee
The only chance there is (and it is very slim) to stop this program is to kill it while it's still just a sparkle in some megalomaniac's eye.

Congress has already put a major damper on this project - and one of the laws was overkill in being a complete moratorium on government data mining. What is data mining? In my book a simple SQL query constitutes data mining. So Congress just managed to outlaw the use SQL queries by the fedgov pending further study. However, it's clear that the feds do need to do a better job working with the data they already have - but unfortuneately the over-reaction to TIA has hamstrung that pressing need.

14 posted on 05/20/2003 11:30:08 AM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical
Two word: Information Overload.

The NSA had a phone recording of the hijackers talking about the World Trade Center three days before Sept. 11th.

They are making their own jobs harder to do.

15 posted on 05/20/2003 11:30:34 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Liberal Classic
Be sure to name this system "SkyNet" !

Nah, I've narrowed it down to either "Competely Stupid" or "Ill-conceived."

16 posted on 05/20/2003 11:31:02 AM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Paul C. Jesup
Two word: Information Overload.

Yep. They're trying to figure out how to drink from an open fire hydrant and DARPA wants to increase the water pressure.

17 posted on 05/20/2003 11:31:52 AM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FreeRadical; *tech_index; Sparta; freedom9; martin_fierro; PatriotGames; Mathlete; fjsva; ...
Related thread :

Proposed System Would Use Lots of Data (Total Information Awareness)

OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST

18 posted on 05/20/2003 11:32:36 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Recall Gray Davis and then start on the other Democrats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Exactly!
19 posted on 05/20/2003 11:33:13 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I respect your database expertise and I acknowledge the immense difficulty of the project.

But I also know that if something is physically possible (and this is) its just a matter of how bad you want it.

At one point not long ago our government's planes couldn't break the sound barrier. Shortly after they were stepping foot on the moon. It's just a matter of how bad they want it. And trust me, they want this one very very badly.

20 posted on 05/20/2003 11:35:15 AM PDT by freeeee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson