Police Storm Wrong Apartment, Resident Dies of Heart Attack

WABC News NYC ^ | May 16, 2003 | Art McFarland

[Beck_isright]

" If the courts would restore the protections outlined in the 4th amendment, then we could expect some measure of safety."

Because of 10 years of ignorance and 9-11 those protections will not be restored in our lifetime. I've held my fire throughout this entire thread and now, I've got to rant.

This is no longer a trend, it is SOP. A "confidential" informant drops an address, a raid occurs and more and more innocent people are injured or killed. The informant is usually someone being squeezed facing a larger sentence and because this raid occurs in the same building or block where his buddies live, they know they have to bug out. While the police stand around confused and try to figure out what went wrong the real criminals escape.

The "War on Drugs" is second only to the "War on Terror" as far as major jokes in this country. Someday, sadly, a friend of mine who is a police officer will get one of these "tips", kick in the door of the wrong house and a model American 2nd Amendment loving NRA/GOA member will blow away two or three of the stormtroopers before being killed. Until this happens, these raids will continue. And the body count of innocents will mount.

[mikenola]

I personally guarantee that they expected to find a LOT more than that in the apartment
Know something the rest of us don't?

[Chemist_Geek]

Look at the data from 1975-1990 Alaska, the Netherlands, and Switzerland before you call my claims "unsupported."

Of course, that would require a mind which was not in a drug-induced stupor...

[Joe Hadenuf]

I hate to break this news to you, but the majority of the rank and file LEOS out there will tell you in private, the WOD is an epic waste of time, police resources, and tax payer money, and will never be "won"."

I don't see it being won from where I am, but then again neither will the wars on other crimes. New criminals mature as do new cops like myself. Its a neverending battle. Where the fronts are is all up to the public!

Is there a war on other crimes? Ever notice that the federal governent never stepped in a made a stupid statement like, "The war on murder or the war on theft"?

In any event, you neglected failed to address the most important part of the post. And again, I am not speaking of no nothing, green cops with a heavy badge.

[Badray]

" Pre-Giuliani there were almost 2000 dead a year in NYC. Now we have about 5-600. Proactive policing at work. Wanna go back to the "good old days"?"

Were these 2000 gang bangers killing each other? Hmmm. I'll have to think about that. tap...tap...tap...(I'm thinking)

I'm having a hard time finding the downside of that. Or are you saying that was innocent people who were dying? Are you further saying that if we kill a few innocent civilians that it's worth it to save 1400 or 1500 gang bangers? Is drug use down? Is it because of no-knock raids?

[SJSAMPLE]

I don't need ANOTHER constitutional right to be secure in my person, myhome and my posessions. We already have one (look up Article IV in The Constitution). I'm not claiming a right to use mind-altering substances, just that the government cannot abridge all of my other rights in attempt to control them. If they can't respect my rights while pursueing this goal, then they need to reevaluate their goals, NOT MY RIGHTS.

As far as no knock warrants go, I guess that if the officers are all safe at the end of the day, the end justifies the means. However, it's been proven that judges have been and are becoming very liberal in their consent to such warrants. And, even when not, certain agencies have proven themselves willing to provide falsified or exaggerated evidence to get them.

I find fault with;
1. The granting of such warrants, based on specious or nonexistent evidence.
2. The application of such warrants. A well-organized no-knock can be of value. However, we're seeing an increase in shoddy, unprofessional applications (such as the aforementioned case). How can an agency raid the wrong house with such a warrant? Did they perform recon and surveillance? If they can't properly identify the targets, we should take away their toys. Seems nowadays that a larger and larger percentage of LEO agencies want to militarize, and no-knocks provide the justification.

[newwahoo]

"Were these 2000 gang bangers killing each other? Hmmm. I'll have to think about that. tap...tap...tap...(I'm thinking) I'm having a hard time finding the downside of that. Or are you saying that was innocent people who were dying? Are you further saying that if we kill a few innocent civilians that it's worth it to save 1400 or 1500 gang bangers? Is drug use down? Is it because of no-knock raids?"

They were killing each other and lots of innocent people were dying in the crossfire on the streets. You can still hear gunfire at night in many parts of the city, and lots of the rounds don't hit their intended targets. I just pulled this little excerpt from the NYPD daily blotter section of today's NY Post. She was probably just in the wrong place when some guys started burning each other over drug turf.

-------------------------------------- -A woman driving through Crown Heights this weekend was struck in the back by a bullet, cops said yesterday. The 41-year-old victim was shot Saturday night while traveling near Kingston Avenue and Park Place. She was taken to St. Mary's Hospital, where she was in stable condition. ------------------------------------------

[MrLeRoy]

Look at the data from 1975-1990 Alaska, the Netherlands, and Switzerland before you call my claims "unsupported."

Provide that data, or your claim is indeed unsupported. When YOU make a claim, the burden is on YOU to produce the evidence.

[Badray]

I'm not getting your point.

We have no-knock raids and people are STILL getting killed by gang bangers in shootouts on the street? So instead of just the bad guys doing the killing we now have to worry about cops killing you? Am I supposed to feel safer now?

End the prohibition. Remove the profit and the corruption ends. Remove the profit and the turf wars end. When was the last time you saw beer brewers or liquor distillers engaged in a shootout? Here's a hint -- When did prohibition end?

[Stew Padasso]

Who uses marijuana?

Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug.
At least one-third of Americans have used marijuana sometime in their lives.6

http://www.dea.gov/concern/marijuana_factsheet.html#6

---

I guess it is safe to assume that LOTS of people are smoking pot.

[jayef]

Wrong Winston.

[steve-b]

many fatal mistakes, as seem to occur with "confidential information " from sources described only as a "police informant"

Give the guy a break. The same informant spent all these years moonlighting as Jayson Blair's news source....

[MrLeRoy]

Pre-Giuliani there were almost 2000 dead a year in NYC. Now we have about 5-600. Proactive policing at work.

No-knock raids increased under Giuliani? I thought his crackdown was on public drug sales (and use).

[steve-b]

Nope, the fault lies with these cops, who should share a cell (briefly) with the last gang-bangers they brought in.

[jayef]

I tell you what GEEK, when I'm done negotiating contracts, perfoming business case analyses, interpreting internal and external perfomance metrics and developing action plans here at my company . . . I'll see if I can wrap my drug addled mind around your set of data.

[steve-b]

But I do think they were doing very good stuff and that this was a tragic accident and that there was no criminal intent.

Well, then, the cops should share a cell with some gang-bangers for only 10-20 instead of life. (Admittedly, it would be a moot distinction, as they certainly should not receive any special protection on the inside.)

[steve-b]

A well-organized no-knock can be of value

There is no justification for a no-knock in a suspected drug possession case. First, don't bother telling me that modern chemistry can't prove that drugs were just flushed, given a sample of toilet water. In this world of arguing over parts-per-billion of arsenic, I simply can't believe it. Second, so what if some mid-level distributor flushes the stuff? That leaves him with the bigger problem of explaining why he doesn't have the money he owes the guy one step up the drug food chain.

[jayef]

These people think The Constitution grants them rights. They totally miss the point. Our founders would hang their heads in shame that so many people misunderstand the basic form of their government and its philosophical underpinnings.

[Dane]

At least one-third of Americans have used marijuana sometime in their lives.6

Uh of course you inherantly imply that 1/3rd of Americans are now regular smokers which is wrong. That 1/3rd amount is skewed that high(no pun inteded) because of the use by the biggest group of Americans today(baby boomers) where the amount of that group(baby boomers) who tried pot once was around 50%. These are the flower children and hippies of the 60's, where incidentally the drug culture got it's start. It is also interesting that the Libertarian Party got it's start, 1971, when the drug culture was starting to boom.

But you ahead and misconstrue facts. All the respected studies I have seen is that "regular" smokers of pot today is around 3% of the population.

[sargon]

You are showing everybody who reads what you wrote that you have a preference to blame those that protect you from criminals.

No, I am stating that I have a preference for true Liberty.

I am saying that the State has no right to decide what the People can eat, drink, or smoke.

I am saying that such a State which will imprison its citizens for, say, owning the wrong plant, is Tyrannical.

When a crime of force or fraud is committed, that's when Law Enforcement can be legitimately involved.

The "criminals" who violate the fascist Drug War are not criminals at all. It is the State who is the criminal.

Just like with Prohibition in the 20's, all the negative factors increase when the State becomes Fascist.

Yet, you have no responsibility for this on the criminals that brought the law officers to this door to begin with because of their involvement with drugs on a criminal level.

Criminals, schmiminals. Like I said before, if someone commits force or fraud, then they're a criminal and should expect attack from the State.

Otherwise, they're a victim of State Tyranny.

If people are arrested for any other reason, IMHO, then it is the Tyrannical State which is the greatest criminal of all.

I'm a libertarian Bush voter, by the way.