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The Declaration of Independence for Dummies, Part 1
tame
| Thursday, May 15, 2003
| tame
Posted on 05/15/2003 1:18:48 AM PDT by tame
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To: MHGinTN
I'm sorry to say this, my friend tame, but you've erred...the unalienable right to Life is far more than a right to privacy or a right to live in freedom, it is the right to be alive because your Creator granted to You LIFE and you remain innocent toward your Creator in that Life;I'm happy to say, my good friend MG, that there is no error on that part of the translation since I specifically mentioned "without undue harm" having that very concern in mind. I don't think I wrote a word about "privacy" in that clause, but I'll look again.
41
posted on
05/15/2003 9:46:16 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: I still care; StriperSniper; brityank; seams2me
I am printing this out to share with my homeschool group.GREAT idea! You all can discuss what may be right as well as wrong or a little off concerning the translation, and alternative readings. I do hope you print out the whole thread since there are some good observations, especially that the frog would "boil", not fry, lol!
42
posted on
05/15/2003 9:53:28 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: Remedy
Excellent! Thanks fir the links, too:-)
43
posted on
05/15/2003 9:55:24 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: Lee'sGhost
There's too much talk of God in there. Edit and change to something that is meaningless and acceptable to America hating libs.LOL! Exactly the point! The Declaration of Independence, in effect, has been ruled an unconstitutional violation of separation of church and state by the radical leftists.
44
posted on
05/15/2003 9:57:55 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: eBelasco
I don't get the "tried and true" sense from the original. The principles of the Founding Fathers were certainly not tried and true, they were Revolutionary.I respectfully disagree. The Constitution had not yet been framed, and when it was framed the principles were tried and true principles practiced in part by past civilizations (not the least of which was the nation of Israel in the Hebrew scriptures).
What was revolutionary was the combination of all these principles in one government in the later Constitution.
45
posted on
05/15/2003 10:02:33 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: tame
bookmarked for the liberals to read.
46
posted on
05/15/2003 10:03:33 AM PDT
by
bmwcyle
(Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
To: bmwcyle
bookmarked for the liberals to read.Hello, ole' friend! I didn't know leftists read old American documents.
47
posted on
05/15/2003 10:22:16 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: error99
It is too bad that so much of it was never actually written into law.It's not too late, is it?
48
posted on
05/15/2003 10:23:41 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: malakhi; Dr. Eckleburg
malakhi Could you please link this thread to your Never Ending Story/Chronicles thread?
Hi, Dr. Eck. How are you?
49
posted on
05/15/2003 10:39:41 AM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: tame
It is one of my favorite pieces of written work and a marvel, but Jefferson freely admitted borrowing passages from John Locke's wonderful works
Thomas Jefferson, along with the other Founding Fathers, adhered to rather conventional 18th century political ideas, derived mainly from the works of Locke and Montesquieu. The Declaration of Independence, which is often cited in the media as a marvel of originality, is nothing but a trite paraphrase of the leading ideas in John Locke's 1693 "Concerning the True Original Extent and End of Civil Government". John Adams thought the DOI was hackneyed, and James Madison apologized for its plagiarism by saying that "The object was to assert, not to discover truths."
John Locke, Concerning Civil Government, 1693, second essay, Ch. 19
Secondly: I answer, such revolutions happen not upon every little mismanagement in public affairs. Great mistakes in the ruling part, many wrong and inconvenient laws, and all the slips of human frailty will be borne by the people without mutiny or murmur. But if a long train of abuses, prevarications, and artifices, all tending the same way, make the design visible to the people, and they cannot but feel what they lie under, and see whither they are going, it is not to be wondered that they should then rouse themselves, and endeavor to put the rule into such hands which may secure to them the end for which government was at first erected...
Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, 1776
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
http://www.anesi.com/q0033.htm
50
posted on
05/15/2003 10:59:37 AM PDT
by
Tamzee
(A half-truth is a whole lie .......Yiddish Proverb)
To: Tamsey
No one posed the issue more forthrightly than did Isabel Patterson in her book "The God of the Machine," written in 1943: "There can be no greater stretch of arbitrary power than is required to seize children from their parents, teach them whatever the authorities decree they shall be taught, and expropriate from the parents the funds to pay for the procedure." She declared that "every politically controlled education system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy, sooner or later. ...
A tax-supported compulsory educational system --- is the complete model of the totalitarian state."
Patterson wasn't talking about Cuba, she was talking about America. Her words are prophetic. It is plain to see, for anyone who wishes to see, that the government of the United States has begun the process of usurping parental rights, and dictating what our children may and may not know, believe, think and value.
51
posted on
05/15/2003 11:15:41 AM PDT
by
f.Christian
(( the VERY sick mind - won't recognize facts -- REALITY -- probability anymore ! ))
To: apackof2
A better and true translation Unfortunately, we Americans tend to read the modern and false idea of freedom as license into the traditional, Aristotelian idea of "Happiness." I know I did when I was in school.
To: tame
The phrase "dreams and goals" emncompasses much of the pursuit of happiness. See the logical results of this relativistic doctrine here
Below is a good explanation of Jefferson's understanding of the term, "Happiness":
Dr. America Archives: Pursuit of Happiness Today is the Fourth of July, and Americans are pursuing happiness in such forms as eating, drinking, playing games, and exploding fireworks. A few Americans - including Dr. America are also commemorating the day by thinking. Join us on the Picnic Grounds of the magnificent (but wholly imaginary) American Studies Museum, where you can see the all-American doctor a smile on his face, a hot dog in his baseball glove, a brownie on his paper plate, and the pursuit of happiness on his mind.
In creating the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson revised John Locke's list of inalienable rights from "life, liberty, and property" to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." As Americans contemplate the Declaration this Independence Day, it's worth wondering about this elusive phrase. What did Jefferson mean by the pursuit of happiness? And what might it mean for us today?
Jefferson's source for the "happiness" in the Declaration was a draft of the Virginia Declaration of Rights his friend and mentor George Mason had written earlier in 1776. Jefferson's replacement of "property" by "the pursuit of happiness" didn't mean that he was opposed to people's owning property; he just didn't believe it was a fundamental right. Jefferson knew that property might be a means to happiness, but he also knew that it shouldn't be an end in itself. And so Locke's property got tucked away inside Jefferson's happiness. And Americans got to ponder the relationship of happiness to self-government, and vice versa.
For Jefferson, happiness comes from self-government the individual's governing of his or her own appetites, outlooks, and actions. It isn't about fulfilling desires; it's about fulfilling the self by fulfilling one's duties. Happiness comes not from play, but from virtue. "Without virtue," said Jefferson, "happiness cannot be." And in a letter to Peter Carr, Jefferson advised his young ward that "health, learning and virtue will insure your happiness; they will give you a quiet conscience, private esteem, and public honor." As Helen Keller said more recently, "True happiness is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose."
Jefferson also believed that an individual's happiness was inextricably connected to a good social life not the rollicking social life of modern beer commercials, but the social life of a country constituted to promote the general welfare, or what he called "commonwealth." These days, when we want to know about happiness, we ask individual people: "Are you happy? How happy? What makes you happy?" Jefferson certainly believed that individuals should be happy, but he understood that individuals would be happiest in a good social order.
So Jefferson believed that the pursuit of happiness was not just personal, but political too. In his own life, he deprived himself of the private pleasures of Monticello in order to participate in the public service that would promote the happiness of his fellow Americans. He left his serene estate in the mountains of Western Virginia for the dank swamp of Washington and its dismal politics. But he did so because he was confident that pursuing happiness for other people would bring him that true happiness of "quiet conscience, private esteem and public honor." On his tombstone, he didn't mention the fact that he had imported ice cream and French cuisine to America, because he knew these were private pleasures. He only mentioned the Declaration of Independence, Virginia's statute for religious freedom, and the establishment of the University of Virginia, because they fostered the happiness that he hoped Americans would pursue.
From the American Studies Museum, this is Dr. America, wishing Americans every happiness on this happiest of days.
Dr. America is professor of History, Happiness and Happenings at St. Olaf College.
To: Tamsey
I have John Locke in my library...not the man, but his writings:-) Veddy interesting stuff. Down through the ages great writers and philosophers have been heavily influenced by predecessors. This is nothing new. There are no really "original" ideas, but there are terrific articulations of these ideas, and Jefferson did a masterful job.
54
posted on
05/15/2003 12:25:56 PM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: Aquinasfan
Ah, but Aquinasfan, I do not disagree with the passages at post #53. And I am certainly no relativist who believes in unbridled passions void of virtue, so you misunderstand my use of the phrase "dreams and goals", for a non virtuous people make such dreams and goals impossible by hastening a police state.
My definition and both the authoritative passages you've cited (and have not) serve to illustrate overlapping circles. At worst it is "both/and" not "either/or") a false disjunct.
55
posted on
05/15/2003 12:33:46 PM PDT
by
tame
(Anyone else heard of this "SeaSilver" Product? What's the word?)
To: f.Christian
Your post regarding the education system (so very accurate, by the way) stands in good company on this thread where tame attempts to clarify the meaning of the Declaration of Independence.
[BTW, why have you stopped posting in poetic form? Some of your haiku was inspired!]
56
posted on
05/15/2003 12:41:35 PM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
To: MHGinTN
It's pretty disheartening ...
when you have defend liberty every day on the FR for 5 years ---
against these statist devils !
57
posted on
05/15/2003 12:44:07 PM PDT
by
f.Christian
(( the VERY sick mind - won't recognize facts -- REALITY -- probability anymore ! ))
To: yankeedame
You wrote : "IMHO when the term "Life" was used it meant not life as in the biological sense, e.g. growing, breathing, responding to stimui, etc. Instead, it meant life as a person's/personal activities, fortune and/or manner of being. That my life belongs to me, and your life belongs to you and John Doe's life belongs to him -- not to any prince, king, czar, emperor, etc. to whom subjects, not individuals, to be moved around, dictated to, disposed of however the sovereign wished." I would disagree, and the evidence of the intention to address the unalienable right to LIFE (to be alive) is found in the Constitutionally asserted 'due process' renderings. It is first wrong for the government to deprive a person of LIFE 'without due process of law'; the other personal rights are addressed following that first wrong.
58
posted on
05/15/2003 12:46:04 PM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
To: f.Christian
You're a rascal! ... 'Statist Devils' ... Bwahaha, are you in fact Judge Bork?
59
posted on
05/15/2003 12:47:51 PM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
To: MHGinTN
I wish --- Clarence Thomas !
60
posted on
05/15/2003 12:48:50 PM PDT
by
f.Christian
(( the VERY sick mind - won't recognize facts -- REALITY -- probability anymore ! ))
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