Arabia's Civil War

danielpipes.org ^ | 5/14/2003 | Daniel Pipes

[big gray tabby]

Pipes is wrong. There's another alternative. Walk away and leave the corrupt House of Saud to their own devices. Let them hire some mercenaries or something.

We no longer need the House of Saud.

[alnitak]

The Saudi kingdom disappeared twice because its military and religious aggressiveness made it so loathsome

Third time lucky?

[McGavin999]

Yes Daniel, we've always known that that is the choice, the question is how? SA has to be drug into the 21st century and with most of the population poisoned with hate, how is this done? How do you undo years of propaganda? How do you get extremeist clerics out of positions of power?

Perhaps one of the best ways would be to convene a group of scholars to study the issue, and to tell the people just how far away from God they have gone by following this ugly message. But where do you find respected Islamic scholars who are not already tainted?

[McGavin999]

Only the most respected scholars will be able to dislodge the mad mullahs. That's where this must be attached first, in the mosque.

[sharktrager]

Those who threaten the House of Saud are funded by extremists within the House of Saud (among others).

To say we must support the kingdom when it is responsible for it's own demise id absurd.

[goody2shooz]

One of the reasons that King Charles I of England was beheaded by a rebellious Paliarment was due to the English people's view that the King was lacking in good English values and Protestant religous convictions.

Unfortunately Oliver Cromwell was a tyrant.

It took the dreadful experience of a living hell for the English to realize that a fey King with a Parliarment to check and balance his royal powers was far better government than a tyrannical religious nut.

I suspect the Arabs will have to experience the same thing (like the Iranians and the Iraqis) before they finally understand that a representative govenment with personal liberty isn't evil.

[Savage Beast]

It would seem wise of the Saudi regime to enlighten the populace and lead the people away from this religious extremism. It also seems that the Saudis would have far more resources to be used for this than would the Wahhabis.

Does the extended Saudi royal family believe the fanatical Wahhabi religion, and is this the reason why they do not attempt to lead the people away from it?

Do the Saudis fear that any attempt to lead the people away from Wahhabism would result in their overthrow?

Do the Saudis derive their power and the stability of their throne from their commitment to Wahhabism?

What would happen if the Saudis openly condemned Wahhabism and outlawed it?

Do the Saudis fear eternal damnation or the overthrow of their regime or both?

[McGavin999]

Maybe not in this case. Abdullah is (I've heard) a good and pious man who lives simply and morally, it's many in the family that are corrupt. If the good part of the family can root out black sheep there is a possibility that they can spare the people the pain of finding out the hard way. I've always thought that the battle for SA would not be among the people but within the royal house.

My problem with this whole thing is that I don't know which ones are the good guys and which ones are the bad guys. Every time I think I have it figured out, they do something or say something that completely throws me off track. Of course, it doesn't help that all their names sound alike, but then how original can you get when you're trying to name your 100th son?

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for posting this!

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[ThanhPhero]

I think we need to get out of the way and then put a hammerlock on the winner.

[ThanhPhero]

YES.

[ThanhPhero]

If the good part of the family can root out black sheep

Historically, things have not generally happened that way. In such a situation it takes a single strong charismatic leader to arise. I think in this case we may just pull out and let them go at each other. The winner then will face us. If the Sauds manage to trounce the Wahhabis then we can lean heavily on the Sauds. If the crazies win we may have to squash them.

[McGavin999]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that all we can do is pull out, this is something they have to do for themselves. It's going to be a pretty tough fight because there has been so much poison fed to the people that it could be big trouble. BUT! I have a lot of faith in the basic goodness of people (no I'm not a liberal) and I think a lot of pious people have attended mosque and listened to the diatribes and just not bought into it. In every society, there are those who are born with a good moral compass and those who are not. We'll have to wait and see who wins out.

[ElkGroveDan]

...and all this time I thought it meant "Southern Arabia" (not really).

[denydenydeny]

Indexing.

[goody2shooz]

My experience with Arabs here in the USA has been mostly with professional engineers. These people tend to be genuinely pragmatic. Though occasionally one would make a statement completely diametric to a position for which I knew that he/she had already articulated passionate support.

How anyone can embrace two contradictory beliefs completely without delusion, well, I'll never understand.

Have you ever encountered this trait among Arabs?

[Travis McGee]

Very bright. Then we will have the Taliban on Steroids With F-15s and Rockets in charge of the world's greatest oil reserves.

Very bright.

[SuziQ]

Hmmm. If the Muslims want to have a Civil War, who are we to stop them?

[randita]

Maybe your questions are just rhetorical, but here are my answers anyhow:

Does the extended Saudi royal family believe the fanatical Wahhabi religion, and is this the reason why they do not attempt to lead the people away from it?

Some in the royal family probably do believe it, but those at the top do not, or they wouldn't live the way they do.

Do the Saudis fear that any attempt to lead the people away from Wahhabism would result in their overthrow?

Yes, definitely.

Do the Saudis derive their power and the stability of their throne from their commitment to Wahhabism?

In part, yes. They pay off the Wahhabists and turn a blind eye to the terrorism in their midst to maintain their power and stability, but mostly their power stems from their control of the Saudi oil fields.

What would happen if the Saudis openly condemned Wahhabism and outlawed it?

A revolution.

Do the Saudis fear eternal damnation or the overthrow of their regime or both?

Possibly both, but my bet is they're much more afraid of the overthrow of their regime.