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To: inthemush
The bill of rights didn't expressly give Blacks and Women equal status in this country. It took amendments to do that. The constitution was designed to be maleable and fit to modern times.

So, gun banning freedom-haters should get an amendment passed. Easy enough?

This is the real world, and The NRA members times 1000 could never stop the US military.

You haven't thought this one out too far, have you?

I think the NRA uses this fear of the big bad government to protect their billion dollar industry lobby.

The NRA has nearly 4 million members and receives very little industry support, other than advertising dollars. The firearms and sporting goods industry has its own lobbying organization. The NRA represents its individual members.

Also, in practically every country where guns are tightly controlled, the crime and murder rates are significantly less per capita. Is this not a true fact. I'd like to see some opposing information.

Well, "practically every country" sure leaves you a bit of wiggle room, doesn't it? I'll bet I can come up with quite a few violent hell-holes where legal gun ownership is all but forbidden. More important than that is the fact that, compared to the utopias I'm sure you have in mind, the US has higher rates of non-gun violent crime. So, using your logic, the low crime rate of some European countries must be due to their tight regulation of bricks, knives, baseball bats, human hands, etc.

More important, however, is the general crime rate of those countries you have in mind. Most people will not be the victim of murder, by firearm or other means. One is far more likely to be a victim of a property crime. Check the rates of home invasion burglaries (particularly "hot" break-ins, where the perp knows the home owner is present) in England, for example, and if you're really daring, see how those rates are trending vs. the US.

Suffice it to say, I don't think you really have a grasp on the relationship between restrictions on legal gun ownership and crime. The good thing is, it's never too late to educate yourself, much like I did when, in my early 20's, I went from being a supporter of "common sense gun control" to a "gun nut."

I'll get you started: there is no data anywhere which even suggests that laws which restrict legal gun ownership in the US do anything to reduce crime. Your quaint suppositions, notwithstanding.

87 posted on 05/13/2003 5:01:48 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass
I'll bet I can come up with quite a few violent hell-holes where legal gun ownership is all but forbidden.

How about Uganda?

Like most African leaders of his generation, Obote led an independence movement premised on democratic self-rule, but installed himself as dictator for life. In 1966, he suspended the constitution. On December 19, 1969, Obote used a failed assassination attempt to justify imposing a nationwide ban on the lawful possession of firearms and ammunition. Of course, government officials and other favored individuals were exempt. Accompanying the ban on non-government guns was a ban on all political parties, except Obote's government party, the Uganda Peoples Congress.

In 1970, a new Firearms Act replaced the 1955 British Firearms Ordinance. The law imposed national firearm registration and gun-owner licensing under exceedingly stringent requirements. In practice, the law was used to make it illegal for anyone to have a firearm, except persons deemed politically correct by the Obote dictatorship.

A year later, army chief of staff Idi Amin wrested control of the country in a military coup. The ensuing genocide of the Amin regime was perpetrated against a populace whose primitive armaments did not approach the effectiveness of the murderous government. By the time the genocide ended in 1979, the estimated toll was 300,000 slaughtered Ugandans

Anyone know the homicide rate in Uganda vs. the U.S. rate?

93 posted on 05/13/2003 5:38:28 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Trailerpark Badass
I'll bet I can come up with quite a few violent hell-holes where legal gun ownership is all but forbidden.

Here's a nice little table. It's from the "Jews for the Preservation of Gun Ownership" web site. Death by "Gun Control" looks like a good book.

The Mother of All Stats

The Human Cost of "Gun Control" Ideas
Government Dates Targets Civiliams Killed   "Gun Control" Laws    Features of Over-all "Gun Control" scheme 
Ottoman Turkey 1915-1917 Armenians
(mostly Christians)
1-1.5 million Art. 166, Pen. Code, 1866
& 1911 Proclamation, 1915
• Permits required •Government list of owners
•Ban on possession
Soviet Union 1929-1945 Political opponents;
farming communities
20 million Resolutions, 1918
Decree, July 12, 1920
Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926
•Licensing of owners
•Ban on possession
•Severe penalties
Nazi Germany
& Occupied Europe
1933-1945 Political opponents;
Jews; Gypsies;
critics; "examples"
20 million Law on Firearms & Ammun., 1928
Weapon Law, March 18, 1938
Regulations against Jews, 1938
•Registration & Licensing
•Stricter handgun laws
•Ban on possession
China, Nationalist 1927-1949 Political opponents;
army conscripts; others
10 million Art. 205, Crim. Code, 1914
Art. 186-87, Crim. Code, 1935
•Government permit system
•Ban on private ownership
China, Red 1949-1952
1957-1960
1966-1976
Political opponents;
Rural populations
Enemies of the state
20-35 million Act of Feb. 20, 1951
Act of Oct. 22, 1957
•Prison or death to "counter-revolutionary criminals" and anyone resisting any government program
•Death penalty for supply guns to such "criminals"
Guatemala 1960-1981 Mayans & other Indians;
political enemies
100,000-
200,000
Decree 36, Nov 25 •Act of 1932
Decree 386, 1947
Decree 283, 1964
•Register guns & owners •Licensing with high fees
•Prohibit carrying guns
•Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers
Uganda 1971-1979 Christians
Political enemies
300,000 Firearms Ordinance, 1955
Firearms Act, 1970
•Register all guns & owners •Licenses for transactions
•Warrentless searches •Confiscation powers
Cambodia
(Khmer Rouge)
1975-1979 Educated Persons;
Political enemies
2 million Art. 322-328, Penal Code
Royal Ordinance 55, 1938
•Licenses for guns, owners, ammunition & transactions
•Photo ID with fingerprints •License inspected quarterly
Rwanda 1994 Tutsi people 800,000 Decree-Law No. 12, 1979 •Register guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify
need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers

95 posted on 05/13/2003 5:45:41 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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