Posted on 05/11/2003 4:54:10 AM PDT by joesbucks
And didn't we just hear a story last week that more scientists and former weapons inspectors are on the way? What am I missing?
Yep.
May 07, 2003
Pentagon to Increase Team on Weapons Hunt
By PAULINE JELINEK
ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) - About 2,000 more experts are being sent to Iraq to help look for banned weapons as well as regime leaders, terrorists and more.
The team is more than triple the size of the force now searching for weapons and larger than was previously described. It will be headed by a two-star general in defense intelligence, the Pentagon said Wednesday.
The Defense Department also confirmed it is investigating what officials said may be the most promising discovery so far - a trailer truck they say could turn out to be the first mobile biological lab recovered since the start of the war to disarm the government of Saddam Hussein.
The Bush administration alleged that Iraq had chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs and said the main reason for the war was to destroy them. Despite weeks of searches at more than 100 sites, officials have reported finding nothing conclusive so far.
Although Pentagon officials suggested some Iraqi units were armed with chemical weapons just days before the war, none were found when those units were overrun. Officials said again Wednesday at a Pentagon news conference that finding the "smoking gun" will take time.
Asked if prewar intelligence was flawed, Defense Intelligence Agency Director Vice Adm. Lowell Jacoby said it was far too soon to tell.
"This is piecing together a major jigsaw puzzle, and we are only just beginning ... to work the puzzle," Lowell said.
Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton of DIA will head the new group being sent to Iraq, called the Iraq Survey Group.
Consisting of some 1,300 military and civilian experts in computers, intelligence, weapons, demolition and other matters, the group also will have former U.N. weapons inspectors and 800 support personnel. They are joining 600 military and civilian experts from the armed forces, FBI, CIA, Defense Threat Reduction Agency and elsewhere who are already hunting for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
Only half of the new group will devote itself to weapons. The others will be looking for and analyzing information on regime leaders, terrorists, war crimes, the former Iraqi intelligence service, atrocities and prisoners of war, Defense Undersecretary Stephen Cambone said.
Officials had previously said about 1,000 more were going to search for weapons, but never talked about the extra people for the other searches.
The Pentagon has said the United States may prosecute some figures for war crimes, and that soldiers are gathering information that can be used for the Iraqis to prosecute people who committed atrocities over the decades of Saddam's rule.
Cambone said the prewar lists of important sites to visit was about 1,000, including some 600 that related to weapons.
An additional 400 sites have been identified through Iraqi tips, documents and other leads since the war started.
Still, the searchers in Iraq have only explored 110 sites so far, Cambone said, 70 from the prewar list and 40 that emerged with new intelligence since the major fighting ended.
Officials said the suspected biological lab was being tested by American forces in Iraq. The trailer matches the description of such laboratories given by various sources, including a defector who says he helped operate one.
Cambone said initial tests have been done on the trailer, which was taken into custody April 19 at a Kurdish checkpoint in northern Iraq. No biological agents have been found so far, but officials believe the trailer was washed with a caustic chemical to wipe away evidence. They said they may need to dismantle it to get to hard-to-reach surfaces.
The trailer, painted in a military color scheme, was found on a transporter normally used for tanks. It contains a fermenter and a system to capture exhaust gases, which an Iraqi defector said were parts of Iraq's mobile labs, Cambone said.
"While some of the equipment on the trailer could have been used for purposes other than biological weapons agent production, U.S. and U.K. technical experts have concluded that the unit does not appear to perform any function beyond what the defector said it was for, which is the production of biological agents," Cambone said.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2003/may/07/050704966.html
Yes you do, he HAD them, he used them on the KURDS. EVERYONE, NOT just the US, KNOWS HE DID HAVE them, so therefore, it means he DISPOSED of them one way or another, a mystery to yet be solved. However, don't miss the forest, for the trees. We have found TWO mobile labs. We can speculate and wonder when the answer is simple. They (mobile labs) exist because he used them to make WMD. No other explanation is feasible.
So let all the handwringing (closeted) socialist/marxists flay about and foam at the mouth and try to discredit the entire Iraq War. They are just showing their true colors, they never met a dictator they didn't LOVE.
You know what, I agree.
But after trying to figure out what may have or may not have happened, I started reading some very rabid Bush supporters comments on the lack of finding WMD's. Then I extrapolated it to Saddam.
Many Bush supports have theorized that the administration is holding back the finding of the WMD's in the event a dem starts using the lack of a find as a talking point. When the talking point starts making impact, wham, it's trotted out that we have found them and kept the info classified. Dem is then shattered.
Now to Saddam. I believe no matter what, we were going to invade Iraq. Whether or not there were WMD's, whether or not there were proven ties to Al Queda, whether or not there was still extensive atrocities against Iraqi citizens, whether nor not Saddam was in compliance with the disarmament he signed after '91......we were going in. Period. Saddam knew that. All this has been brewing for the better part of a year and almost two. It has been telecast. The UN show was simply that, a show.
In the mind of a Saddam, what better way to show that Bush was reckless than to have nothing on hand and not say anything about it. Powell at the UN showing his display boards while Saddam and his "men" set around the TV with CNN on watching and thinking "Think of what world opinion is going to be when they find nothing in the way of WMD's". Again, Saddam knew Bush was going in no matter what.
For now, the US is not worried about public opinion of the world. We won, we conquered, we were victorious. It will only begin to hurt IF our occupation lasts forever and casualties continue to mount. With regard to culture, Iraq is not us. They will not want our "freedoms" and will likely vote in several tribal Islamic leaders once we have turned the country back over to them. (If we stay there, then it gives Islam another reason to hate us so in either case, we likely lose). Add to that if the economy stays in the pits, people will do as they did President Bush I and turn on him. The above two things will then make the lack of WMD's an issue with the American people. Saddam may no longer be around or if he is will no longer be in a position to take power again, but if this theory is even 20 or 30% accurate, he again may have the last laugh on a Bush.
Look, I believe Saddam should have been removed from power. I also believe we were at best mislead and at worst lied to about the WMD's.
But again, just a possible scenario as to why Iraq let us go in when nothing appears to exist.
All you have to do is read some of the first hand reports of what the massacre at Halabja was like to get an idea of what would happen if this stuff was let loose on an American city. We'll find the stuff, or find where it was destroyed.
Yes, we were goin in anyway. We were aware of what the Iraqi people were living through. We knew about Halabja, we knew about the destruction of the Marsh Arabs and the total destruction of a way of life that had been around since the beginning of civilization. We knew about the torture, about the electric cables, about the dismembering, about the mass graves. You bet we were going in anyway.
I can't explain all of it. But is it possible that in 5 years it could have been destroyed? Possibly. Five years is a long time.
If these items were still on hand or nearby and the program was active as we have claimed, then fresh traces in water and other places would have been found. You can't just in some cases burying this stuff easily. Especially the nuke stuff.
When this war began, I started mentioning to everyone I know, what if no WMD's are found. What if they did destroy or otherwise dispose of them and we end up looking like fools. Eveyone assured me we would be surrounded by them once we went in if they weren't used on us first. Well neither has occurred.
It is plausable that Saddam knew, especially after 911 that he was dead meat for an invasion whether WMD's or not, whether an Osama link or not? President Bush would not allow the assination attempt on his father stand and the guise of a 911 and a probable liklihood of WMD's being found would support that.
I'm not usually prone to being "Chuck Harder or Art Bell" about things like this, but this whole series of events, when seriously looked at doesn't add up on either side.
Yes, we were goin in anyway.
At least you admit it. Most here wouldn't.
They have already found traces in the Euphrates where WMD's were dumped just prior to the invasion. Yes, things will be found, but you must remember that there was plenty of time to hide this stuff. I wasn't that worried about it being used on our military because I was aware of how much the Iraqi people wanted out from under Saddam's thumb and the leaflet drops gave them plenty of information on what would happen if it was used.
Most of those in high places knew very well that we would win, and they knew that there would be war crime tribunals. I don't think Saddam knew of the disposal of a lot of the stuff.
Unlike a lot of people, I didn't expect we would walk in and find the stuff in days. It'll take months to put together the clues but we will find them and we will find the people who made them.
I believe that Saddam was well on the way to developing a nuclear device and given a few years would have been there.
I have no connections to Iraq or to the middle east, but I have been sickened by what went on under the noses of the world. This "It's all about oil" crap is a cop out (and about 40 years old). Anyone who believes that we can allow that area to fester is a fool. There is NO oil in Afghanistan but we had to clean out that rats nest as well.
We can't force democracy on those people, but we can give them the opportunity. What they do with that opportunity is their business as long as it doesn't threaten us. I hated what happened on 9-11 and I don't want to go through anything even remotely like it ever again. I don't care what it costs, I don't care what we have to do, but I refuse to stand by and wait for another incident to come to us. We're doing what has to be done.
They have already found traces in the Euphrates where WMD's were dumped just prior to the invasion.I'm not sure whether this is "dumped" material or poor manufacturing practices that allowed material to leech into the water system during the manufacturing process. I don't think you can date such material and I certainly won't deny that such manufacturing existed in the past, especially during the Iran/Iraq conflict. But I don't believe any experts have given an analysis whether it specifically came from "dumped" to be hidden material or whether the pollution existed as part of the manufacturing process.
I wasn't that worried about it being used on our military because I was aware of how much the Iraqi people wanted out from under Saddam's thumb and the leaflet drops gave them plenty of information on what would happen if it was used.
If this material was deployed during the intitial buildup prior and during our offensive, then it would be next to impossible to hide or destroy the material. I don't think it ever was going to be used against us, either by Saddam or if those under Saddam's thumb decided not to use it.I don't think Saddam knew of the disposal of a lot of the stuff.
Such hiding in a short period of time would have put the material very close to either where it was manufactured or being warehoused. Also, this doesn't address the nuclear program. That is neither portable nor easy to hide.
That's a big country and the quantities needed aren't all that much. Sooner or later we'll find it.
Things can be hidden in plain view and if nobody tells you it's there you'd miss it. I expect we'll find it in the coming months.
To my mind, it was enough that SH was defying the agreement he signed when he surrendered in 1990. Added to that was what he did to his people, and the fact that he was paying the families of the suicide bombers.
There was a lot made about these suits. Same as the chemist who was telling us all about his work for Saddam in developing chemical weapons.......except that he was no longer involved after 1989 and he kinda/sorta doubted that much was done after he left. Were the suits from a previous time and not something that was strategically deployed? Were the suits there in the event Iraq was gassed by a foe? Remember Iran lurks around the corner and Iraq doesn't have many friends in the desert.
There is so much we don't know and how much of this is being spun, such as the chemist mentioned above until he spilled the beans on the time period of his involvement as well as how much was trumped up to work the general public into a frenzy to support the war. At least you admit that no matter what you supported intervention. Overall I do too.
What I don't like is the, well let me call a spade a spade, the lie or lies to get me and my nieghbors to buy in.
Rather difficult to prove a negative.
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