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To: Alamo-Girl
I could see the Greeks thinking ‘boys will be boys” when they misbehave whereas the Hebrews would think “the boy has sinned and now must atone.”

I don't think either Plato or Aristotle would say "well, just let boys be boys." Both were great moral philosophers. Plato, also a great political philosopher, especially stressed that disordered souls make for disordered society (i.e, the polis, political society). In other words, there can be no good society if it is composed of bad men. In Republic, he famously devised ways to make the "bad boys" atone -- upon conviction for crimes, they had five years to "get themselves straight." Failing that, the polis could put them to death. Of course, Plato never thought that his Republic could ever be reified -- mainly because it is inconceivable that there could ever be a political system governed by a wise and loving Philosopher-King.

Plato knew that, realistically, politics just doesn't produce that kind of outcome. For one thing, philosophers generally lack the type of ambition that could ensure political success: They are thinkers, not doers. For another thing, the "common man" tends not to value philosophers. But I'm sure Plato had a lot of fun developing his myth of the "good polis" -- in Republic, Statesman, Laws: It was a labor of love conducted over a lifetime.

84 posted on 05/11/2003 9:41:38 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your posts and for the kudos! Hugs!

What I discovered looking for an answer to your question is quite fascinating indeed:

kabbalah

kabbalah or cabala [Heb.,=reception], esoteric system of interpretation of the Scriptures based upon a tradition claimed to have been handed down orally from Abraham. Despite that claimed antiquity, the system appears to have been given its earliest formulation in the 11th cent. in France, and from there spread most notably to Spain. There were undoubtedly precedents, however; kabbalistic elements are discernible in the literature of earlier Merkavah mysticism (fl. after c.A.D. 100) inspired by the vision of the chariot-throne (“merkavah”) in the Book of Ezekiel. Beyond the specifically Jewish notions contained within the kabbalah, some scholars believe that it reflects a strong Neoplatonic influence, especially in its doctrines of emanation and the transmigration of souls (see Neoplatonism).

In the late 15th and 16th cent., Christian thinkers found support in the kabbalah for their own doctrines, out of which they developed a Christian version. Kabbalistic interpretation of Scripture was based on the belief that every word, letter, number, and even accent contained mysteries interpretable by those who knew the secret. The names for God were believed to contain miraculous power and each letter of the divine name was considered potent; kabbalistic signs and writings were used as amulets and in magical practices.

The two principal sources of the kabbalists are the Sefer Yezirah (tr. Book of Creation, 1894) and the Zohar (tr. 1949). The first develops, in a series of monologues supposedly delivered by Abraham, the doctrine of the Sefirot (the powers emanating from God, through which the world is created and its order sustained), using the primordial numbers of the later Pythagoreans in a system of numerical interpretation. It was probably written in the 3d cent. The Zohar is a mystical commentary on the Pentateuch. It was written by Moses de León (13th cent.) but attributed by him to Simon ben Yohai, the great scholar of the 2d cent. A.D.

Following the expulsion (1492) of the Jews from Spain, kabbalah became more messianic in its emphasis, as developed by the Lurianic school of mystics at Safed, Palestine. Kabbalah in this form was widely adopted and created fertile gound for the movement of the pseudo-Messiah Sabbatai Zevi. It was also a major influence in the development of Hasidism. Kabbalah still has adherents, especially among Hasidic Jews.

Now, of course, I’ll be looking for those scholarly assertions of neoplatonism!

As to the dates of compilation, the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the antiquity and reliability of the underlying Hebrew manuscripts by dating their having been copied as far back as 300 BC. The date of the manuscripts from which they were copied remains unknown (at least to me.)

The dating of the Gospels is much disputed, especially with new manuscripts and evidence being discovered even at this late date. Some experts put them in the first century AD – others up to the mid or late second century AD.

I believe the oldest Koran is 750 AD.

In any case, it seems to me that Christ perfected their efforts...He who came, not to abolish (e.g., the Law), but to fulfill.... With regard to the existence, hierarchy and workings of the soul – the revelations of Christ as expressed by Paul and John are given with authority which is confirmed by personal experience of believers (I am one who so testifies.)

WRT to the “boys will be boys” statement, I obviously over-reached. This original discussion on the Objectivism threads had the argument of moral law from a materialist philosophy at odds with the revealed moral law from God. I do have a tendency to demean such equivalencies. Sorry about that!

85 posted on 05/11/2003 10:28:31 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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