[unspun]

A-G, I tend to share a desire to be thorough, with you. That being the case maybe I should also point out with you that not even Jesus has known all of the Father's will with complete certainty at all times. Hence, not knowing when his own return to earth will be and, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

That was at His point of indescribable agony over his impending separation from his Father (knowing not only His pain, but the pain this would cause His Father, too and perhaps especially the latter). Yet even then, he declared his true will: to have the Father's will done.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your additional explanations this morning! Hugs!!!

You asked: The mind is, a "part" of his soul, along with his heart -- I don't like to use the word "emotions" partly because that causes me to ask, "Emote from where? and the answer is "the heart". BTW, I wonder, A-G, Is this where the kabbalah teaching interferes with the concepts conveyed through Scripture, where the spirit is the essence of our being, in our hearts (which along with our minds are constituent to our souls?

I’m not “into” the teaching of the Kabbalah any further than what I have posted here and thus, cannot answer your question. To me, it is like the opinions of anyone else. Some things ring true to my Spirit, others do not. One area that rings true to me is that the soul is as complex as the physical body. The Kabbalah says the ruach sits in the middle and is where we make choices, the nefesh is underneath – it is a “life force” just like any other animal and the neshamah is above being the breath of life given by God only to Adamic man. Some Kabbalists (not all) use the word spirit to describe the ruach and the word soul to describe neshama. That doesn’t ring true to me, the reverse fits better.

Alamo-Girl, please don't confuse an economy of quoting Scriptures with a reluctance to abide by them.

I don’t at all think that you are reluctant to abide by the Word. The only Scriptures I used to see if there was any error in my thinking are the ones you provided which were not many in number. The opinions and teachings of others are interesting but none of it rang strongly in my Spirit. I realize they have to you, but they have not to me – so I fast forwarded to the Scriptures you provided.

With regard to my attempt to summarize your position, you said:

Now, now, please also don't "put words in my mouth," either. I don't see one of a new born spirit as one who may relate with God by his old, corrupted self-will. I see him being given a new will, as a part of what it is to be a new being, in his as yet unrevealed new nature. Further, I don't say that Jesus along has the authority to speak and do under the Father's direction. How do you read that? I said that He alone was able to know at any moment, all the pertinent specifics of the Father's will and direction regarding his circumstances.

With regard to your question, ”How do you read that?” - I gathered it from this statement in your post at 308 (emphasis mine):

Jesus was uniquely chosen to speak directly for the Father, in all His authority. We don't tend to have that responsiblity. ;-) If we do/would engage in prophesy, though, it is by special event where we act by means of the discrete Holy Spirit.

My actual statement was this: He cites John 5:18-20 and John 12:48-50 as evidence that Jesus alone has the grant of authority to speak and do under the Father’s direction. The authority for special events, as I read your statement above, is by ”means of the discrete Holy Spirit.” Please accept my apology for any misrepresentation!

I am glad to see your statement ” I see him being given a new will, as a part of what it is to be a new being, in his as yet unrevealed new nature” as this brings us much closer in agreement.

You ask me this: A human spirit inevitably has a will. Let me clearly test you on this: Do you desire to obey and please God?

My answer is: More than that, I love Him with all my heart, mind, soul, strength and understanding.

You continue, and ask: Further, will you obey and please God in ways which are distinctly your own, compared to another person, because they are of you? (Remember, Jesus told Peter, "What is it to you?" what was between Him and John.) Doing so, does this make you any less His, acting just the way God wills?

I am not the one trying to change anyone’s thinking on this. For many posts, I’ve said that you and I are fundamentally different in this theology and that is fine with me. You’re the one who has been pressing me to change my mind.

Your explication of the Romans 12:1-2 passage describes your view as I understand it, the ”primary message is to … do things!” and ”we have to wilfully exercise the perfect nature of what we know of God's truth (which is what the Bereans did) and apply the perfect nature of our God-united spirit, in taking dominion over our own earthly souls (along with the rest of what is earthly).”

You’ve mentioned the playground metaphor, where God creates a playground and lets the kids go and play as they “will.” In that scenario, I’d be the toddler who doesn’t want to play with the other kids but instead looks at the Father her arms up saying “Up, Papaw, Pweese!”

Or in another example from the Word:

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. - Luke 10:38-42

Rudyard Kipling wrote The Sons of Martha in 1907:

The sons of Mary seldom bother, for they have inherited that good part;
But the Sons of Martha favour their Mother of the careful soul and the troubled heart.
And because she lost her temper once, and because she was rude to the Lord her Guest,
Her Sons must wait upon Mary's Sons, world without end, reprieve, or rest.
It is their care in all the ages to take the buffet and cushion the shock.
It is their care that the gear engages; it is their care that the switches lock.
It is their care that the wheels run truly; it is their care to embark and entrain,
Tally, transport, and deliver duly the Sons of Mary by land and main.

They say to mountains, "Be ye removed."
They say to the lesser floods, "Be dry."
Under their rods are the rocks reproved-they are not afraid of that which is high.
Then do the hill-tops shake to the summit-then is the bed of the deep laid bare,
That the Sons of Mary may overcome it, pleasantly sleeping and unaware.
They finger death at their gloves' end where they piece and repiece the living wires.
He rears against the gates they tend: they feed him hungry behind their fires.
Early at dawn, ere men see clear, they stumble into his terrible stall,
And hale him forth a haltered steer, and goad and turn him till evenfall.
To these from birth is Belief forbidden; from these till death is Relief afar.
They are concerned with matters hidden - under the earthline their altars are-
The secret fountains to follow up, waters withdrawn to restore to the mouth,
And gather the floods as in a cup, and pour them again at a city's drouth.

They do not preach that their God will rouse them a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not teach that His Pity allows them to drop their job when they dam'-well choose.
As in the thronged and the lighted ways, so in the dark and the desert they stand,
Wary and watchful all their days that their brethren's day may be long in the land.

Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat -
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that!
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, not as a witness to any creed,
But simple service simply given to his own kind in their common need.

And the Sons of Mary smile and are blessed - they know the Angels are on their side.
They know in them is the Grace confessed, and for them are the Mercies multiplied.
They sit at the Feet - they hear the Word - they see how truly the Promise runs.
They have cast their burden upon the Lord, and - the Lord He lays it on Martha's Sons!

Unspun, I do not at all doubt your faith, your sincerity or your service to the Lord! I praise you for it and thank you. In God’s infinite wisdom we fit together perfectly in the body of Christ, some are more like Martha and some more like Mary.

But we both say Maranatha!!!