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To: unspun
Thank you so much for your post! Please do not think that I have any “power of intellect” – my mind is no better or worse than anyone else’s. And thank you for not tagging me with a label.

Concerning Adam and Eve, you said:

Quite evident that Adam and Eve were warned not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But did they know when God was visiting them compared to when He wasn't? When He was, do you suppose they drew perceptions of God's presence vs. when He was not so present? And why did God warn them not to eat of this fruit? And from the rest of the Scriptures, do you believe God was deeply saddened, when they did, or that He had the feelings that one has when he sees his plan coming together?

Genesis 2 and forward indicates that they knew His presence, knew Him and were “aware” of themselves. It also indicates they thought they could “hide” from Him. Perhaps they reasoned that they could “get away with it.” Are you suggesting that God lead them to believe they could “hide” as part of a temptation, i.e. leaving a yummy looking tree with explicit instructions not to eat therefrom?

The temptation may have been part of communicating His will to Adam and Eve (obedience doesn’t exist without willfulness) - but in no way do I conclude that He is pleased they disobeyed or that it was His plan from the beginning that they should disobey so that He could sentence them to mortality, etc. To the contrary, Adam and Eve were eternal beings in the paradise garden of Eden. They were outside of space/time and thus not a point on a timeline for such planning or predestination.

Your questions about messenger and message are answered in the Word. Christ is the Word made flesh. And in addition to the Word, He has given us the Holy Spirit to learn:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. – John 1:14

But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. – John 14:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. – John 15:26-27

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: - John 16:7-8

Yes, I believe the angels were aware of themselves before Lucifer hit the skids and likewise that Adam and Eve were self-aware before being tempted. My point is not that they were “aware” of themselves but that they choose their own interests over God’s. That is willfulness in the first definition of the term.

If our purpose is sandwiched between God's purposes and His dominion (and His expressed purposes are for us to obey Him by taking dominion of the lower order in His name) is He trusting us for acting in ways that He prefers to enjoy by watching, rather than enacting our behavior Himself? (What did He tell Adam and Eve, before the fall about such things?)

The Scriptures are rather straight-forward on the purpose of delegating authority within His dominion. Christ explains it in the parable of the talents:

For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents. And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine. His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 25:14-30

You continued the thought with this paragraph:

There are times when we may be so engaged with God that we may act according to the movements of His very soul. Do you also suppose that the Father wants his sons to act by observing Him at work in our surroundings and taking on such jobs as His learned son apprentices? Do you suppose that the Bridegroom would want to have a bride that dresses herself in the way she may wisely perceive to be most beautiful for Him (since she has empathy with him) or does the groom dress the bride?

With regard to the dressing of the Bride of Christ, it is indeed given to her as the righteousness of the saints. Her duty is make herself ready.

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. – Revelation 19:7-8

With regard to the learned son apprentice taking on jobs by observing God work in our surroundings, I wonder how a human can observe God “work” and if he could, how he could deduce from that the will of God for his life. It seems to me the better approach would be for the apprentice to seek out God’s will for himself and then do that - no more and no less. I base this on the Scriptures concerning gifts of the Spirit in I Corinthians 12. For instance, not everyone has the gift of an evangelist. Determination alone is not adequate to make one an effective evangelist and a well-intentioned person could do more harm than good by trying to be something other than God’s will for him.

You asked about the term Ayn Sof - it is the Kabbalist description and equation, for God, at the beginning:

Carlo Suares: Revived Qabala: Sepher Yetsira (Yetzirah) Lexicon: Ayn-Sof (Ein-Sof) / Nothingness /

Before meeting the text we must throw some light on AynSof (Aleph-Yod-Noun-Sammekh-Waw-Phay) and Aur Aëlion. Addressing itself to cabalists, The Sepher Yetsira (Yetzirah) leaves out the equations of pre-structured energy known to them, but which do not enter the sphere of Yotser, or formation. As it is our intention to explain the cabalistic mentality to the general public, the equations must be examined before going on to a translation that would otherwise be lacking in its essential basis.

The ten Sephirot are transformers of energy, breaking it down until it becomes completely materialised. As a preliminary to this structuring of energy, the Qabala recognises two double equations of infinite energy: Ayn-Sof and Aur-Aëlion. In Hebrew Ayn-Sof means "without end," or "infinite," and Aur-Aëlion means "light," the highest or uplifted state of mind.

Read according to the code, the two double equations disclose the fundamental postulates of the Qabala, and contain an epitome of the whole.

Ayn-Sof. Ayn: Aleph-Yod-Noun (1.10.700) is a negation in Hebrew: "There is not." Strangely, this equation, on the contrary, expresses the whole, because it consists of Aleph and Yod, which are intemporal energy and its temporal projection: that is to say, the two partners in this interplay of cosmic life, death and existence. However, it is understandable why, due to the sense-based origin of the vulgate, Ayn is a negation. Noun final (700) which defines the stake of the cosmic part as being the Principle of Indetermination is an irresoluteness, an openness to all possibilities, to all that can come about unforeseen, beyond thought, from the not yet created: that is to say, to all that is still non-existent. This extraordinary abundance of freedom is a whirlpool of nothingness for the psyche (which feels in its element only through the familiar or the past). Ayn originates the metaphysical: "God created the world ex nihilo."

Read in full, Aleph (Aleph-Lammed-Phay: 1.30.80), Yod (Yod-Waw-Dallet: 10.6.4) and Noun (Noun-Noun: 50.700) show that the action of Aleph is to confer an organic movement (30) upon undifferentiated energy (80); that existence expressed by Yod is a fertilising (6) of opposing life (4); and that the life-in-existence of Noun (50) results in the freedom of the indeterminate (700).

Sof (Sammekh-Waw-Phay: 60.6.80) repeats and completes Ayn by the introduction of Sammekh (60) which, according to the code, is centripetal, fertilising energy. Sof is a double energy: centripetal by Sammekh and centrifugal by Waw (which evolve into female and male). These two contrary energies highlight the Phay (80) which was discovered in 4yn only when opening out Aleph (Aleph-Lammed-Phay). In short, Ayn is an anatomical equation which lays down the three elements of prime importance in this mode of thinking - Aleph-Yod-Noun final. Sof is a biological equation expressing the setting in motion of differentiated energy, Phay (80) , by two thrusts. One of them, Sammekh, picks up energy in the cellular centre, and the other, Waw, emanates from the centre and projects itself to the outside.


249 posted on 05/14/2003 10:09:56 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
So... how 'bout them Cubs?

Thanks for your very thoughtful answers and info. (BTW, maybe we can start a thread some time on the many kinds and levels of traits such as "intelligence," etc.)

You have a way of proving the expansion of the universe. ;-) I'm guilty of that too -- but you tend to be more kind to be "explicative." I may not be able to do your reply justice for a day or so (presuming I can do it justice).

253 posted on 05/15/2003 7:16:10 AM PDT by unspun (love the LORD with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, all your mind)
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