[r9etb]

Presumably, as a suicide, Judas died unto death, whereas Jesus died unto Life. God does not judge as we do: Does God save Judas -- because he was a instrument of the divine Will?

Yeah, all of those questions were tumbling through my head.

In a lot of ways it's appropriate to make the following comparisons:

1. Jesus = Moses
2. Judas = Pharaoh

Another question -- suppose Judas had not killed himself. Would Jesus have forgiven him post-resurrection? Would we be justified in comparing Judas and Paul as exemplars of how we choose?

The examples of Judas, Pharaoh, and Paul (among others) suggest that "will" is not everything -- when necessary, God can and does intervene. But then, the fact that God makes Himself known to us, and also answers our prayers is proof enough that there's more to the equation than simply free will.

[Alamo-Girl]

Er, I was eavesdropping on the Judas discussion and wanted to offer a few tidbits for your perusal.

In Romans 5 and 6, Paul goes through a similar analysis with regard to the law:

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. – Romans 5:20-21

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? – Romans 6:1-2

I wanted to also offer the statement that Jesus made, saying that Judas is the “son of perdition” and a few places where the term “perdition” appears elsewhere in the Word:

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. – John 17:12

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. – II Ths 2:3-4

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. – Revelation 17:8

Beyond that, I’m not sure how to define the link to perdition, because of this:

As thou knowest [yada`] not what is the way [derek] of the spirit [ruwach], nor how the bones [`etsem] do grow in the womb [beten] of her that is with child [male']: even so thou knowest [yada`] not the works [ma`aseh] of God ['elohiym] who maketh all [`asah]. - Ecc 11:5

Food for thought…