[sal002]

I think Vietnam provided a fundamental example that is still at issue today. When we say "freedom" do we mean individual liberty, or the right of self-determination? As I recall, the average Vietnamese citizen seemed more sympathic to the North (with some serious exceptions), especially given Ho Chi Minh's earlier history as a "freedom" fighter against the French colonialists.

Iraq raises the same issues - what happens if the majority of the Iraqi populace wants a Islamic theocracy (where individual liberty to religious who one wants) is suppressed? What if the Communist Party in Iraq keeps on gaining strength and demands some share of power?

To me freedom means individual liberty - but if we aren't careful, self-determination can easily override individual liberty.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

...Your Self-Determination vs Individual Liberty Point is well taken ..for Events in the last Century.

...After the Events of September 11, 2001 we have been living in an new -Century of FREEDOM- that now forces the Free to bring Demcoracy and Freedom to the enslaved for everyone's own Safety ..thru Peace.

...Your surmising that the Common Man in a Free South Vietnam wanted HO CHI MINH's Communism to enslave them is a factual error. The week after we left them to their own fate in the South in 1973, just as the Communist Soviet Union was giving the North $6 Billion in Military Aid for a near future Final Solution, the ARVN's (South Vietnam Army) took over 5,000 dead in a week fighting Communism.

...The City of Quang Tri was also FLATTENED that week while fighting against Communism.

...When the Democrats in Congress engineered its cut off of U.S. Funding for the South's Replacement Guns, Gun Ammo, Artillery, Artilery Ammo, Helicopters, Helicopters Parts, Jet Fighters, Jet Fighter Parts...

...the South's Fate was sealed, as the Communist Soviet Union's $6 Billion to HO CHI MINH brought the North's Tanks and Artillery into the South.

...I have since been told in person by former fighters from the North, who had fled to America after the Fall of Saigon (!), that they fought because HO CHI MINH told them that everything would become better in the North (Already Bad) and the South when Vietnam was unified under Communism.

.."HO CHI MINH Lied to us" they say .."As everything got much worse instead for both after the Fall of Saigan and we had to leave Vietnam"..!!!

FREEDOM FOR VIETNAM
FREEDOM FOR VIETNAM
FREEDOM FOR VIETNAM
SOON