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Bush, Religion, and War
Joe Sobran ^ | 4/22/03 | Joe Sobrn

Posted on 05/07/2003 8:21:56 PM PDT by ValenB4

Bush, Religion, and War

April 22, 2003 The hawks got their war, but it came at a heavy cost to America’s image and reputation in the world. As they tell it, France, Germany, and Russia were the petulant spoilers who tried to ruin the party. But this ignores the war’s huge unpopularity nearly everywhere, not so much with governments (which can be bullied and bribed) as with ordinary people. It also ignores the real spoiler: Pope John Paul II, who, in his measured words, made his own opposition to the war very clear.

Robert L. Bartley of the Wall Street Journal couples the Pope with “the voices of liberal Protestantism, which once again finds itself out of step with the pews.” He adds, “The Pope has the same problem, of course.” And he quotes polls to prove it: “62 per cent of both Catholics and mainline Protestants backed the war.”

Bartley forgets to mention one little fact: these are polls of American Catholics, a small fraction of the world’s vast Catholic population. So the Pope is only “out of step” with American pews.

“As for the Iraq war,” Bartley concludes, “what do the Pope and liberal theologians make of the cheering crowds in Baghdad and Saddam’s torture chambers? The president’s success has confounded his critics.... Somehow it’s better, I suspect, for a president to talk to God than to talk to pollsters.”

The non sequiturs are running almost too fast to keep up with here. How is the Pope’s moral opposition “confounded” by the war’s success? Did he suggest that the war would be justified if the United States won? Since when is “success” the Christian standard of righteousness?

Note too the implication that the Pope — of all men on earth! — should be attentive to opinion polls, while a president should disregard them (even though they favor him — in the United States, anyway). And now the war is justified by cheering crowds and torture chambers? What about 9/11, terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, and all the other urgent reasons we were still being given only a few weeks ago?

Ah, success! Americans are rather notorious for measuring all things by the “bitch goddess, success.” If you win, it must mean you deserved to win. America loves success stories, from Reader’s Digest to Business Week to Vanity Fair. You too can be a success! That’s the American gospel.

The Four Gospels tell a different story. They weren’t taking polls yet on the first Good Friday, but if they had, Jesus Christ would have been rated a pretty abject failure. He died a miserable criminal’s death, covered with the mob’s spit, and his followers had scattered in fear. It didn’t look like the beginning of the greatest success story in human history.

Unlike the modern CEO, Christ didn’t surround himself with successful men. He chose poor fishermen and despised tax collectors, and he kept company with rather flagrant sinners. The Sermon on the Mount doesn’t read like a modern motivational speech to a roomful of ambitious executives. It wouldn’t do as a think piece in Bartley’s paper.

Ever since, Christians have been taught to be wary of worldly success — indeed, to sympathize with the poor and to glorify the martyr. Bartley implies that President Bush talks to God rather than pollsters, but whom has he surrounded himself with? Big businessmen and, if not tax collectors, men who are eager to spend our taxes, especially on war.

It’s one thing to defend the president on political grounds. It’s another to offer him as a model of the Christian virtues. Only God can judge his heart, but the appearances suggest a man of worldly aptitudes rather than supernatural virtues. When a Christian is praised for “success” in the Wall Street Journal, it may be time for him to take a good look at himself. It’s possible he’s succeeding with the wrong crowd.

Bush is the most famously religious president since Jimmy Carter; yet we know little of his specific religious views, especially as they bear on his foreign policy. As Bartley mentions, about 40 per cent of Americans believe that these are the last days before Christ’s return. Does Bush share this belief, and has it shaped his views on war in the Middle East?

These aren’t nosy questions. Bush’s theology, like the Pope’s, may affect the fate of millions


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antiwarright; bush; faith; iraqifreedom; joesobrn; josephsobran; religion; robertlbartley; thepope; war
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1 posted on 05/07/2003 8:21:56 PM PDT by ValenB4
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To: ValenB4
What an interesting article.
2 posted on 05/07/2003 8:25:53 PM PDT by ValenB4 (Cathryn Crawford is really cute!)
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To: ValenB4
Americans are rather notorious for measuring all things by the “bitch goddess, success.” If you win, it must mean you deserved to win. America loves success stories, from Reader’s Digest to Business Week to Vanity Fair. You too can be a success! That’s the American gospel.

Interesting?

Joe Sobran is a despicable human being.

This mess of an article is so riddled with errors, one hardly knows where to begin.

The passage above is the detritus from a bitter, fat old man who influences no one about anything.

3 posted on 05/07/2003 8:34:11 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: ValenB4
The former Conservative and newfound Anarchist strikes again.
His refusal to see the other side of a debate shows his extremism. (And don't get me started on this Holocaust Revisionists over ideas.)
4 posted on 05/07/2003 8:44:07 PM PDT by rmlew ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.")
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To: sinkspur
I was able to make it to the part about "most famously...Jimmy Carter", at which point I lost my dinner.
5 posted on 05/07/2003 8:44:58 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: rmlew
Who would have guessed Justin has a twin?
6 posted on 05/07/2003 8:45:23 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: ValenB4; Fred Mertz; gcruse; Senator Pardek; Scenic Sounds; TLBSHOW
An uninteresting, dull, stupid article that still has the ability to make me mad. Nice going, ValenB4.

Read this and then flame this guy, okay?
7 posted on 05/07/2003 8:53:52 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (ValenB4 is really cute, too.)
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To: ValenB4
“As for the Iraq war,” Bartley concludes, “what do the Pope and liberal theologians make of the cheering crowds in Baghdad and Saddam’s torture chambers? The president’s success has confounded his critics.... Somehow it’s better, I suspect, for a president to talk to God than to talk to pollsters.”

The non sequiturs are running almost too fast to keep up with here.

Sobran then launches into a non-sequitur himself by simply ignoring the point, and claiming that Bartley was suggesting the Pope pay attention to opinion polls. The fact is if the Pope had his way thousands would remain in Saddam's torture chambers, hundreds of children would still be rotting a Basra prison for not joining the Saddam Youth, and millions would be living in unimmaginable tyranny. No wonder Sobran chooses not to deal with it.

8 posted on 05/07/2003 8:57:43 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: ValenB4
Did Sobran get Arianna-nized?
9 posted on 05/07/2003 9:00:19 PM PDT by Consort
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To: ValenB4
This piece is rather incoherent. He praises the Pope for not being influenced by polls, while pointing out that the majority of the world agrees with him, and accuses Bush of following the polls while again, pointing out that the majority of the world disagrees with him. It seems Sobran is more impressed by popularity polls than anyone.

This ignores the fact, of course, that Bush has obtained the support he has by hard-fought leadership. The American electorate had to be convinced and he convinced them.

Sobran is impressed that Russia, France, and Germany all opposed our action without examining their collusion in propping up and profiting from Saddam's regime. They armed him, financed him, carried the water for him in the UN, and did business with him like there was no tomorrow.

The opinions of those businessmen impress him, while the willingness of US businessmen to abstain from business dealings with Saddam on moral grounds doesn't.

He rightly points out that Jesus warned us against putting too much importance on the treasures of this world, while failing to note Saddam's billions, and the billions that went to precisely France, Russia, Germany, and the millions more that went to pliant politicians and journalists around the world.

Sobran coyly mocks Bush's religious faith; the man who freed Iraq couldn't possibly be a man of God. But men of God come in more than one flavor. There are the men of God who write opinion pieces, and there are men of God who wear boots and kick in the doors of torture chambers. Sobran shouldn't concern himself with the souls of the rough men who opened the prison doors, or the men who lead them. He should concern himself with the men of God who knew what Saddam was doing and did nothing to stop it.

I think there was a parable about such men.
10 posted on 05/07/2003 9:01:08 PM PDT by marron
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To: ValenB4
How interesting that you haven't posted your own review.
11 posted on 05/07/2003 9:07:57 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
LOL...nice, real nice. I hope it tasted good coming up the second time.
12 posted on 05/07/2003 9:11:40 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (ValenB4 is really cute, too.)
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To: MEG33; ValenB4
Valen is scared; he doesn't want to get beat up by me.
13 posted on 05/07/2003 9:12:26 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (ValenB4 is really cute, too.)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
Hey!
14 posted on 05/07/2003 9:14:25 PM PDT by ValenB4 (Cathryn Crawford is really cute!)
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To: ValenB4
Profound
15 posted on 05/07/2003 9:15:06 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: ValenB4
Ah, success! Americans are rather notorious for measuring all things by the “bitch goddess, success.” If you win, it must mean you deserved to win. America loves success stories, from Reader’s Digest to Business Week to Vanity Fair. You too can be a success! That’s the American gospel.

Ah, failure. The left measures all things by the "bitch goddess, failure." If you lose, it must mean you were deceived, taken, exploited, and used for the advantage of another. The left loves failure stories, that's why they cannot look at a liberated country, the people who cheer, the evidence of torture and mass murder and say, this was the right thing to do.

16 posted on 05/07/2003 9:15:41 PM PDT by Dolphy
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To: ValenB4
Hey! what? You wanna piece of me?
17 posted on 05/07/2003 9:16:01 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (ValenB4 is really cute, too.)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
It was just a figure of speech. I had quesadilla tonight, so it wouldn't have mattered much.
18 posted on 05/07/2003 9:18:59 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Yummy.

Duh. I know it was a figure of speech. ;-)
19 posted on 05/07/2003 9:20:17 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (ValenB4 is really cute, too.)
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To: Dolphy
Well said.
20 posted on 05/07/2003 9:24:24 PM PDT by MEG33
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