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Ya gotta love that "rattlesnake" reference!
1 posted on 05/06/2003 1:12:17 PM PDT by Redcloak
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To: *bang_list
BANG!
2 posted on 05/06/2003 1:13:15 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Redcloak
"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."

What a good phrase, "The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision"
3 posted on 05/06/2003 1:17:40 PM PDT by TheDon ( It is as difficult to provoke the United States as it is to survive its eventual and tardy response)
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To: Joe Brower
For your ping list...
4 posted on 05/06/2003 1:27:29 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Redcloak
The American center for Law and Justice is a conservative law group that specializes in Constitutional Law but they mainly focus on religious issues. I sure wish they'd join us and fight for the 2nd Amendment and this case in particular.

http://www.aclj.org
5 posted on 05/06/2003 1:32:58 PM PDT by BlueOneGolf (3rd Infantry Division: "Rock of the Marne!")
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To: Redcloak
What's the next step in this process? Will it be appealed to the USSC?
12 posted on 05/06/2003 1:50:21 PM PDT by jimkress
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To: Redcloak
Now the justices are on an anti-tyrant kick. Their epiphany will last just as long as it takes for a democrat to retake the White House.
19 posted on 05/06/2003 2:01:07 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Redcloak
Ping for later. I've got to go rebuild a carb now.
20 posted on 05/06/2003 2:01:10 PM PDT by metalurgist (Never underestimate the power of a large group of stupid people....... U S Congress's real motto)
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To: Redcloak
But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.

HOO YAH!!!!!

But..but ...but, that's why we have a government! To protect us from tyranny! /liberal whining off :-)

22 posted on 05/06/2003 2:17:06 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama
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To: Redcloak
bump for the dissenters
23 posted on 05/06/2003 2:17:11 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: Redcloak
bookmark
32 posted on 05/06/2003 2:39:44 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Redcloak
Ya gotta love that "rattlesnake" reference!

Indeed.


The Writings of Benjamin Franklin: Philadelphia, 1726 - 1757

On the Transportation of Felons to the Colonies

On Transported Felons

From Virginia we hear, that six Convicts, who were transported for fourteen Years, and shipp'd at Liverpool, rose at Sea, shot the Captain, overcame and confin'd the Seamen, and kept Possession of the Vessel 19 Days; that coming in Sight of Cape Hatteras, they hoisted out the Boat to go on shore; when a Vessel passing by, a Boy they had not confin'd, hail'd her, and attempted to tell their Condition, but was prevented; and then the Villains drove a Spike up thro' his under and upper Jaws, and wound Spunyarn round the End that came out near his Nose, to prevent his getting it out: They then cut away the Sails from the Yards, left the Ship, and went ashore. But a New-England Sloop coming by soon after, and seeing a Ship driving in the Sea in that Manner, boarded her, found Things as above mentioned, and carried her into North-Carolina; from whence a Hue and Cry went after the Villains, who had stroll'd along to Virginia; they were taken at Norfolk, and one of them confess'd the Fact; upon which they were order'd up, about two Weeks since, to Williamsburgh, for Trial as Pyrates.

From Maryland we hear, that a Convict Servant, about three Weeks since, went into his Master's House, with an Ax in his Hand, determin'd to kill his Mistress; but changing his Purpose on seeing, as he expressed it, how d ------ d innocent she look'd, he laid his Left-hand on a Block, cut it off, and threw it at her, saying, Now make me work, if you can.

N. B. 'Tis said this desperate Villain is now begging in Pennsylvania, and 'tis thought has been seen in this City; he pretends to have lost his Hand by an Accident: The Publick are therefore caution'd to beware of him.

From Bucks County we hear, that a Convict Servant, one John McCaulefd, imported here last Fall, has broke open and robb'd several Houses, of Goods to a considerable Value; but being apprehended at a Ferry, is committed to Prison.

Yesterday the Trial of Samuel Saunders, for the Murder of Simon Girtie, came on at the Supream Court, when the Jury return'd their Verdict Manslaughter.

"When we see our Papers fill'd continually with Accounts of the most audacious Robberies, the most cruel Murders, and infinite other Villainies perpetrated by Convicts transported from Europe, what melancholly, what terrible Reflections must it occasion! What will become of our Posterity! -- These are some of thy Favours, BRITAIN! Thou art called our MOTHER COUNTRY; but what good Mother ever sent Thieves and Villains to accompany her Children; to corrupt some with their infectious Vices, and murder the rest? What Father ever endeavour'd to spread the Plague in his Family! -- We do not ask Fish, but thou givest us Serpents, and worse than Serpents! -- In what can Britain show a more Sovereign Contempt for us, than by emptying their Jails into our Settlements; unless they would likewise empty their Jakes on our Tables? -- What must we think of that B ----- d, which has advis'd the Repeal of every Law we have hitherto made to prevent this Deluge of Wickedness overwhelming us; and with this cruel Sarcasm, That these Laws were against the Publick Utility, for they tended to prevent the IMPROVEMENT and WELL-PEOPLING of the Colonies! -- And what must we think of those Merchants, who for the sake of a little paltry Gain, will be concern'd in importing and disposing of these abominable Cargoes?"

The Pennsylvania Gazette, April 11, 1751


Rattle-Snakes for Felons

To the Printers of the Gazette.

By a Passage in one of your late Papers, I understand that the Government at home will not suffer our mistaken Assemblies to make any Law for preventing or discouraging the Importation of Convicts from Great Britain, for this kind Reason, `That such Laws are against the Publick Utility, as they tend to prevent the IMPROVEMENT and WELL PEOPLING of the Colonies.'

Such a tender parental Concern in our Mother Country for the Welfare of her Children, calls aloud for the highest Returns of Gratitude and Duty. This every one must be sensible of: But 'tis said, that in our present Circumstances it is absolutely impossible for us to make such as are adequate to the Favour. I own it; but nevertheless let us do our Endeavour. 'Tis something to show a grateful Disposition.

In some of the uninhabited Parts of these Provinces, there are Numbers of these venomous Reptiles we call RATTLE-SNAKES; Felons-convict from the Beginning of the World: These, whenever we meet with them, we put to Death, by Virtue of an old Law, Thou shalt bruise his Head. But as this is a sanguinary Law, and may seem too cruel; and as however mischievous those Creatures are with us, they may possibly change their Natures, if they were to change the Climate; I would humbly propose, that this general Sentence of Death be changed for Transportation.

In the Spring of the Year, when they first creep out of their Holes, they are feeble, heavy, slow, and easily taken; and if a small Bounty were allow'd per Head, some Thousands might be collected annually, and transported to Britain. There I would propose to have them carefully distributed in St. James's Park, in the Spring-Gardens and other Places of Pleasure about London; in the Gardens of all the Nobility and Gentry throughout the Nation; but particularly in the Gardens of the Prime Ministers, the Lords of Trade and Members of Parliament; for to them we are most particularly obliged.

There is no human Scheme so perfect, but some Inconveniencies may be objected to it: Yet when the Conveniencies far exceed, the Scheme is judg'd rational, and fit to be executed. Thus Inconveniencies have been objected to that good and wise Act of Parliament, by virtue of which all the Newgates and Dungeons in Britain are emptied into the Colonies. It has been said, that these Thieves and Villains introduc'd among us, spoil the Morals of Youth in the Neighbourhoods that entertain them, and perpetrate many horrid Crimes: But let not private Interests obstruct publick Utility. Our Mother knows what is best for us. What is a little Housebreaking, Shoplifting, or Highway Robbing; what is a Son now and then corrupted and hang'd, a Daughter debauch'd and pox'd, a Wife stabb'd, a Husband's Throat cut, or a Child's Brains beat out with an Axe, compar'd with this `IMPROVEMENT and WELL PEOPLING of the Colonies!'

Thus it may perhaps be objected to my Scheme, that the Rattle-Snake is a mischievous Creature, and that his changing his Nature with the Clime is a mere Supposition, not yet confirm'd by sufficient Facts. What then? Is not Example more prevalent than Precept? And may not the honest rough British Gentry, by a Familiarity with these Reptiles, learn to creep, and to insinuate, and to slaver, and to wriggle into Place (and perhaps to poison such as stand in their Way) Qualities of no small Advantage to Courtiers! In comparison of which Improvement and Publick Utility,' what is a Child now and then kill'd by their venomous Bite, -- or even a favourite Lap-Dog?

I would only add, That this Exporting of Felons to the Colonies, may be consider'd as a Trade, as well as in the Light of a Favour. Now all Commerce implies Returns: Justice requires them: There can be no Trade without them. And Rattle-Snakes seem the most suitable Returns for the Human Serpents sent by our Mother Country. In this, however, as in every other branch of trade, she will have the Advantage of us. She will reap equal Benefits without equal Risque of the Inconveniencies and Dangers. For the Rattle-Snake gives Warning before he attempts his Mischief; which the Convict does not. I am

Yours, &c.
AMERICANUS.

The Pennsylvania Gazette, May 9, 1751


33 posted on 05/06/2003 2:42:04 PM PDT by michigander
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To: Redcloak
The 9th, once again, proves that it is useless. Time to take it up another notch.
34 posted on 05/06/2003 2:53:22 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican ("hatemonger")
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To: Redcloak
As the ninth dwells considerably on what the term "militia" means throughout the constitution, they fail to mention that the easist way to read the 2d is that the states organize the militia but the people comprise the militia. Just as the 10th doesn't say, ".. reserved to the states and, oh yeah, that collective group called people.

See, how hard was that?

36 posted on 05/06/2003 2:55:38 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (There is nothing Democratic about the Democrat party.)
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To: Redcloak
"The most extraordinary step taken by the panel opinion is to read the frequently used Constitutional phrase, 'the people,' as conferring rights only upon collectives, not individuals."

This is a perfect distillation of Leftist ideology, and I wholeheartedly applaud the judge who wrote it. I'm delighted to see it stated so directly in a court decision. The whole Leftist point of view is that individuals should be subservient to the collective — the state. Despite their pretense of loving civil liberties, they actually detest the individualist, entrepreneurial, liberty-loving American spirit. Our Constitution, grounded as it is in the rights of individuals over the rights of the state, is an impediment to achieving their ultimate goal: a massive super-collective (world government) that destroys and replaces the concept of nationhood.

38 posted on 05/06/2003 3:00:41 PM PDT by Wolfstar (If we don't re-elect this truly great President, we're NUTS!)
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To: Redcloak
Bump for later reading.
40 posted on 05/06/2003 3:04:27 PM PDT by Oberon (Oh, the huge manatee!)
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To: Redcloak
The court has teed up the ball, so that the SCCOTUS can take a swing and hammer it down the fairway. Will they?

At least we have in the dissent all the reasoning needed, from some skilled legal minds, to ensure that the SCOTUS appeal will be as sound as possible.

(Not to undermine the scrappy lawyer who has handled this thus far, but at this point one needs all the help he can get.)
45 posted on 05/06/2003 3:24:43 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (NEO-COMmunistS should be identified as such.)
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To: Redcloak
From a KeepAndBearArms.com email alert:

Silveira v. Lockyer case headed to Supreme Court

Correct Second Amendment Ruling at Stake

KeepAndBearArms.com

May 6, 2003

The best possible outcome any of us could have hoped for
has happened in the 9th Circuit Court. The Silveira v. Lockyer
lawsuit is headed for the Supreme Court -- with four judges on
the 9th Circuit stating that the Second Amendment is indeed
an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT.

The naysayers who've criticized KeepAndBearArms.com for
funding this potentially historic lawsuit can scratch their heads
once again. Maybe now they'll help us continue this fight -- or
at least shut up while we do their heavy lifting.

This is national headline material -- as will be evidenced by
numerous newspapers tomorrow. New York Times has already
contacted KeepAndBearArms.com. Silveira attorney Gorski's
telephone has been ringing off the hook. See what Mr. Gorski
has to say about this development. Read the following link for
some of the best Second Amendment news in a long time:
http://KeepAndBearArms.com/silveira/enbanc.asp

One of the judges on our side of this crucial lawsuit wrote a
6-part pro-Second-Amendment opinion that contains 114
footnotes. Find out what he has to say about your rights.
Having such advocacy coming out of the liberal 9th Circuit
Court is indeed a breath of fresh air.

Please let your friends and allies know about this important
development. The future of gun rights in America may hinge
on this very case -- and we have good reason to believe it
will.

We've established an escrow account to raise funds for this
lawsuit. We've invested every penny raised so far -- directly
into supporting the lawsuit -- and every penny raised will be
used ONLY for this lawsuit.

Give online here:
http://KeepAndBearArms.com/donations

Or give by mail here:
http://KeepAndBearArms.com/silveira/mail.htm

More information about the case is here:
http://KeepAndBearArms.com/silveira/scotus.asp

PAY ATTENTION TO THIS:

"The fundraising by KeepAndBearArms.com is essential to
Silveira v. Lockyer and has my backing 100%.”
— Gary Gorski, Attorney for Plaintiffs, Silveira v. Lockyer
46 posted on 05/06/2003 3:31:01 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (NEO-COMmunistS should be identified as such.)
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The AP story on this has been posted here...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/906743/posts
49 posted on 05/06/2003 3:48:16 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Redcloak
Judge Kleinfeld's dissent is spectacular. His analyses is flawless and very detailed. One of his points just amuses me to no end. He says that the idea of who is included in the unorganized militia is about the same people who are eligible for jury duty! I don't know if the US SC will agree to hear this case; but I was also not aware of just how deep and how thorough is the scission between members of the 9th Circuit. The criticism of the Reinhardt clique by these dissenting judges is awesome.

The dissenters also make a pretty good case for the incorporation of the 2nd under the 14th, so that states like California won't be able to simply deny Constitutional rights on the basis of personal whim of the governor/legislature. A quote form Kleinfeld: "About 20% of the Amercian population, those who live in the ninth circuit, have lost one of the ten amendments in the Bill of Rights."

That seems to me to be a really good challenge to the US SC. Let's hope they pick up the gantlet and do the right thing.

54 posted on 05/06/2003 3:58:31 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Redcloak
Ya gotta love that "rattlesnake" reference!

Do you suppose it would be like one of these?

Or this one, which continues in use, prior to 9/11/01 by the USS Kittyhawk as the ship with the longest total activeservice, but since then by Navy ships fleetwide.

56 posted on 05/06/2003 4:39:35 PM PDT by El Gato
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