Cop takes 'midnight photos' of teacher's classroom

Times Argus ^ | David Delcore

[RonF]

If police units can't enter buildings any time they want then we can not have police units at all.

Are you proposing, then, that police have the right to enter a building unannounced when they have no probable cause to suspect that a crime has been or is being committed in that building?

[The Hon. Galahad Threepwood]

I'm unclear as to whether it was his uniform that allowed him entry. The article says he use to work there and he knew the custodian.

If ths custodian knew he had no legitimate business there, and let him in simply because he knew him, then the custodian should also be fired.

The custodian escorted him to the classroom. Does this make a difference?

Well, it's not quite as bad as if he had kicked the door in.

[fml]

Are you saying he was wrong because he was a cop in dress doing this?

[Cultural Jihad]

Agreed. Give the cop a few days paid administrative leave as a punishment for taking too long of a break (if indeed that happened), and then sack the teacher for being a Marxist ideologue and class-warfare advocate in a public school supported by public taxes. If any Che Guevara aficionados in the community want to hire him to teach their own children, then they can set up their own charter school for that purpose.

[dirtboy]

BS! IF the parents are told they can't see the classroom..it's time to take the kids out of school. THat's crazy to have to demand anything. School's don't own the kids for 6 or so hours a day, nor do they own the rights to entry.

Try entering any public school without permission of the administration and then refuse to leave if asked. Then you WILL see cops on school grounds, and in a big hurry.

There are sound security reasons for this. Some administrations abuse them, but that's what school boards and political activism are for - to keep administrators in line.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Exactly.

[Leftymasher]

Who's to say that the children did not come by these beliefs themselves? Who's to say they didn't? All you people are operating on is hearsay and assumptions based on the man's political views. Maybe an interview with the kids would shed more light as to whether this guy was unduly influencing them or not. Perhaps it is even good for them to come into contact with opposing view points. If the parents are that concerned they can talk with their kids and discuss what the teacher said or they could even talk to the teacher himself. I don't buy the knee-jerk assumption that a teacher would try to "get back" at the parents through their kids - it could happen, but that's assuming the worst, and that really bothers me. What bothers me about this is that it took place at night, undercover of darkness, and the cop's evidence is a two dimensional photo, when it could have been taken in broad daylight, during regular business hours, with a rational discussion being the basis of any changes made in terms of staff, curricula, teaching methods etc.

[r9etb]

no case open, public schools are public.

Nope. According to the Barre City School Policies, 2.0 Use of the school building may NOT include....:

2.6 Functions (Are) determined by the building administrator to be an inappropriate use of school facilities.

Mott's activities obviously fall under that category.

Interestingly, also prohibited is: 2.4 Groups (Are) intended to overthrow the government, by force, violence, or other unlawful means.

Given whom he's got pictures of, Mr. Treece may be edging close to that line.

[spodefly]

Communism is a thousand times more dangerous to than Big Tobacco.

The cop is a hero. He may be fired, he may be sued, he is still a hero.

He nationally exposed a communist agent.

Bump that. We have to take back our public schools from these socialist ideologues that will use every effort to thwart any investigation into what they are teaching our children.

[ValerieUSA]

It is inappropriate use of the building to observe and/or document the students' projects on display? Gimma break!

[Quick1]

I'd like to know why the door to that room was locked... Maybe so kids wouldn't be able to sneak in the maintainence door like the cop did, and walk in the room to change their grades or some other mischief? THINK, people.

[Leftymasher]

so sack the teacher for his political beliefs? Maybe they should look for some proof that goes beyond pictures. Pictures cannot demonstrate state of mind. Maybe he was unduly influencing the kids, but it sounds like you are just having a knee-jerk reaction to his beliefs.

[dirtboy]

Why is the room locked? To keep the public from seeing what is on display?

I would imagine that teachers keep sensitive materials such as grade books locked in their desks. Also, some schools allow access after hours by adults taking adult education classes or other activities, so it would make sense to lock classrooms that are not in use for those activites.

No, the room should never be locked for that purpose - that is wrong. The teacher and students do not have any presumption of privacy from observation or exemption from accountability.

The room is locked to protect the personal property of the teacher and the students from being vandalized or stolen. Allowing a citizen who asks permission to see the display to do so, does not violate any principle of protecting personal property.

Sorry, but you just can't walk into a property without the proper permission of those responsible for it. Try it sometime and then announce what you have done and see if you escape some kind of legal sanction. Technically, the cop was in trespass.

[RonF]

He's a cop..

Uh, actually, he wasn't a cop. Not there. Re-read the article. He was out of his juristiction. He had no more right to walk up to that building wearing a uniform and a gun than you do. I'll wager a fair sum of money that either that municipality or that state has a law that makes it a criminal offense to misrepresent yourself as possessing police authority. I'll bet that what this cop did qualifies.

[grapeape]

Cool, you don't support the teacher. I'll assume that this is a purely academic article and start over.

I believe that it is ok for a cop to enter a public building. I entered the debate with the idea of photographing the layout of a classroom. I cannot help but think that any attempt to obfuscate the point is demogogery.

Like your point about "investigation" there was and is no investigation. Why do people keep insisting that there is. Your assuming that this is an abuse of police power. What power did he use to do what? he took pictures of the layout of a class room. That is nothing. To make it into the rebirth of McCarthyism is blowing it way out of proportion.

And another thing. Quit trying to say that someones desk is somehow the same as a class room. They are no where close.

[Flint]

Sounds very much like we have our own little home grown version of the Tailban Madrass School.

[longtermmemmory]

no signs, no trespassing.

[Trace21230]

We will have to disagree on this.

You think that he was acting "as a private citizen" while on duty and in uniform. I disagree with that conclusion. There are thousands of Section 1983 civil rights cases that support my opinion.

While his conduct was certainly motivated by a personal desire to find out what was in the classroom, the legal question is whether he was acting within the scope of his employment, which I believe is a debatable question. But the fact that he was in uniform and on the clock decides the issue for me: he was acting within the scope of his employment. If he had came across a burglar while on the school premises and acted to foil the burglary, he certainly would have been in the scope of his employment. Why should the fact that there wasn't a burglar compel any other conclusion?

"The question then reduces to: does a private citizen have a right to enter a public school building outside of normal business hours without the consent of the school administration?"

This isn't the right question. It's a question you've made to support the result you support.

1) Mott was not a private citizen. He was a uniformed, on-duty police officer. (See above.)

2) Even if he were a private citizen, the janitor's consent would probably be enough to authorize his presence on the premises. The janitor has both actual and apparent authority to permit entry onto the school premises, especially if he is the only school employee on site.

Lest you think I condone Mott's actions, please be assured that I do not. That being said, there is nothing ILLEGAL about what he did, in my opinion.

Personally, I'm surprised he wasn't at dunkin' donuts, like most Baltimore cops would be at that hour.

Trace

[dirtboy]

You have a constitutional right to privacy while a government entity does not.

Try searching file cabinets in the mayor's office (or the school principal's) without a warrant and get back to me...

[grapeape]

In Houston I don't think that a school board member has ever been voted out of office. HISD frequently looses millions and lord knows what else. No one cares.